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If the Smithsonian Institution was more interested in promoting a patriotic version of U.S. history, would it put the Abolitionist Founding Fathers on display?
PGA Weblog ^ | 8/23/25

Posted on 08/23/2025 4:28:03 PM PDT by ProgressingAmerica

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To: BroJoeK
Corwin changed nothing, but it held Border States in the Union long enough to defeat Confederates and abolish slavery via the 13th Amendment.

That makes Corwin an important piece of anti-slavery legislation!

You are unbelievable. An absolute stab in the back to the slaves by the Republicans controlling Congress in 1861, and you are trying to convince people "it was part of a grand scheme to free them! "

And the 13th amendment is a fake amendment passed by tyranny. If the actual will of the people was enacted, there were never enough ratifying states to pass that "amendment."

We all like to pretend it is legitimate, but it was enacted through force, not democracy. It is a humiliation of our Constitutional law.

201 posted on 08/31/2025 10:45:07 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: BroJoeK
Crazy Roger Taney was out of his fricken' mind, a raging lunatic in judicial robes.

And on what basis do you say that? What particular thing did he do that makes you think he was a lunatic?

202 posted on 08/31/2025 10:46:34 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: BroJoeK
Yes, by 1780 there were freedmen who were also freeholders in Massachusetts.

Well I couldn't find any. All I found was that most of the freed men were in Boston.

Some could & did vote. They could also use the courts to, for example, sue for freedom, and at least in theory, could sit on juries.

Do you have any supporting evidence for this contention?

203 posted on 08/31/2025 10:51:08 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Ditto
I'm sure somewhere in you Lost Cause myths you imagined that but I sure have never seen it and I have studied the Civil War era far more than you have.

That is hard to believe, because you often seem so unprepared for information I have revealed to you.

I am reminded of what President Reagan said about Liberals.

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant...

"... It's that they know so much which isn't so."

204 posted on 08/31/2025 10:57:08 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: wardaddy

I’m over any race, to be honest.

What I’m not over, is the Founding Fathers. If they did some act that can be considered “good”, then I’m going to talk about it.


205 posted on 09/01/2025 2:50:02 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (We cannot vote our way out of these problems. The only way out is to activist our way out.)
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To: wardaddy

None of this makes any sense at all. I don’t know who is trying to review. Please explain.


206 posted on 09/01/2025 2:51:46 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (We cannot vote our way out of these problems. The only way out is to activist our way out.)
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To: DiogenesLamp
"The Ones who kept all their slaves?"

Former. If the rule is good enough for a former slave trader, it's good for Americans too.

They are abolitionists. It is clear that you are not coping well with history that won't bend to what you wish it to be.

207 posted on 09/01/2025 3:34:49 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (We cannot vote our way out of these problems. The only way out is to activist our way out.)
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To: DiogenesLamp
My point in mentioning free holder was to illustrate *WHO* the Massachusetts constitution of 1780 was referring to when they said "All men are born free and equal." They were referring to their citizenry, and *NOT* slaves.

Again, you are just flat out wrong. In those days, only freeholders (I.e. citizens who owned real estate and therefore paid taxes) could vote. Not all whites were freeholders, i.e. taxpayers. Some blacks were freeholders, and could vote. It had nothing to do with their rights as individuals.

You just make stuff up as you go.

208 posted on 09/01/2025 6:56:43 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: ProgressingAmerica
They are abolitionists.

Slave owning abolitionists. Their position seems to be "Yeah, we know it is wrong, but we just can't help ourselves. "

It is clear that you are not coping well with history that won't bend to what you wish it to be.

I am reminded of BroJoeK's interpretation of the Corwin Amendment as a good thing for all the black people it tried to keep in slavery.

He just wants to believe what he wants to believe, as do you.

209 posted on 09/01/2025 7:24:06 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Ditto
As I have noticed you continuously ignoring *MY* points, and coming back with all sorts of stuff I consider a deflection, and/or a distraction, I am just not feeling very compelled to discuss anything with you further.

You want to preach, but you don't want to listen, or give any of my points a fair consideration.

You can believe what you like, but neither the Declaration of Independence, nor the Massachusetts constitution of 1780 were written with black people or slaves in mind when they were written. The *INTENT* of their respective governments was to articulate the rights of white people, with no thought given to slaves.

The fact that the reality of their society as slave holding states absolutely contradict what they later claimed those words mean, should be all the proof any rational man needs to understand what they actually meant in 1776 and 1780 respectively.

And Article IV, section 2 is referring to "slaves", not indentured servants. You are trying to put a fig leaf on it, but it isn't fooling anyone.

210 posted on 09/01/2025 7:31:52 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: jeffersondem

You really had to search for that obscure opinion. Do you know that most people who followed the court then considered Justice Baldwin to be insane? Literally insane.


211 posted on 09/01/2025 8:21:33 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: wardaddy

Where you been you old fart.


212 posted on 09/01/2025 8:22:25 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: DiogenesLamp

“Slave owning abolitionists. Their position seems to be “Yeah, we know it is wrong, but we just can’t help ourselves.””

This applies equally to slave trading abolitionists like John Newton, whose position seems to be “Yeah, we know it is wrong, but we just can’t help ourselves.” you’re trying too hard to go out of your way to be inconsistent this can’t be accidental.


213 posted on 09/01/2025 8:43:40 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (We cannot vote our way out of these problems. The only way out is to activist our way out.)
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To: ProgressingAmerica
you’re trying too hard to go out of your way to be inconsistent this can’t be accidental.

I am absolutely oblivious to any inconsistency that you seem to be noticing. I'm not trying to be anything. I'm noticing stuff that doesn't fit with what you wish to believe about the founding era.

I'm contrary like that.

You are like the painter who is painting the King, and removing all the warts and blemishes because he wants to present the king in the best possible light.

I'm just coming along and repainting the warts and blemishes so that it is more accurate.

214 posted on 09/01/2025 11:15:06 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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