U.S. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham: "Weapons will flow to Ukraine at a RECORD LEVEL"

X ^ | July 14 | Sen. Graham

[Captain Walker]

Suppose winning were defined to be, a Ukraine, at least a part of which remains geographically intact, sovereign, and free to make security alliances as it pleases.

Would you then concede that for Ukraine to win would be desirable?

Um, no.

I would extend to Russia the same courtesy we demand here in the US re: the Monroe Doctrine.

(IOW, if it was bad for Russia to put missiles in Cuba and JFK was correct in stopping them, then it's bad for the Ukraine to get in a security alliance with NATO where NATO can put arms close to Russia.)

[MinorityRepublican]

I’ve always said it was stupid to piecemeal the weapons to Ukraine.

Trump gave Putin an exit ramp to end the war. Putin said no.

At the same time, Trump is getting the Europeans involved by paying for the weapons. Otherwise, they wouldn't do it.

[MinorityRepublican]

Why do so many Conservatives believe that repealing the 17th Amendment will end corruption in the USA Senate?

The corruption will just shift to state legislatures, after the 17th is gone.

17th Amendment fantasy. They failed to realize that corruption was a problem in the early 20th Century. Remember Governor Blagojevich attempting to sell Obama's seat in the Senate? It was kinda like that.

I think we messed up with the 19th Amendment because America basically became a democracy at that point and the federal government has expanded rapidly ever since then.

[tennmountainman]

It’s Trumps War Now. Good luck to him. He will need it.

[House Atreides]

“ All I can think of is concessions made to get the BBB passed.”
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Yes, this and that despicable QUADRUPLING of SALT deductions to $40,000. That is a massive subsidy of BLUE STATES’ taxation. Meanwhile, the NATIONAL DEBT CONTINUES TO RAPIDLY INFLATE.

All hail Linda Graham and his fellow neocon ZEEPERS!

[Allegra]

Graham seems to want to act like a tough guy and will send weapons with no plan in place.

Graham wants the war to continue indefinitely. I strongly suspect he has some per$onal interest in that.

[jagusafr]

Gee, sounds like my fighter pilot father’s refrain from his return from Vietnam in 1970 with two Distinguished Flying Crosses and 5 Air Medals until his death in 2017: “They wouldn’t let us win”...

Colonel, USAF JAGC (Ret)

[silverleaf]

Yes

In Ukraines case, who drew the political borders and what were they thinking?

That the hard core UKR nationalists and racial supremacists that allied with the WW2 Nazis would live harmoniously with a 1/3 Russophile population in a multi-ethnic multicultural state?

[rxh4n1]

“Im confident he is controlled by the party bosses and k street types.”

Re the 17th. Your idea won’t have the effect you think it would. You don’t think the state legislatures are controlled by the party bosses? Most pre-17th Senators were party stalwarts too. You have a better chance to elect an upstart with primaries and popular elections.

[rxh4n1]

“Suppose winning were defined to be, a Ukraine, at least a part of which remains geographically intact, sovereign, and free to make security alliances as it pleases.”

That is not Ukraine’s goal. They’ve loudly proclaimed they want all the stolen lands back, including the Crimea. So far, Ukraine has been unwilling to make territorial concessions. To achieve their maximalist goals will require a major expansion of the war.

[bobbo666]

And, the $$ delivered to the local satrap , Zylynskyy, will be skimmed for his use and the balance sent back to US arms suppliers — per the contract to get the bucks in the first place. When received, creatures like LG will skim for his share.

[Busywhiskers]

You can always count on war-monger Lindsey Graham to get all twitter-kittens at the prospect of an escalating armed conflict.

[Kazan]

It's largely smoke and mirrors since we don't have the Patriot interceptors or missiles to give to Ukraine and that's what Ukraine needs.

And, never mind, Ukraine's biggest problem is lack of manpower.

I totally agree Graham is sociopathic war pig that must be defeated in the next primary.

[ansel12]

“”””I would extend to Russia the same courtesy we demand here in the US re: the Monroe Doctrine.
(IOW, if it was bad for Russia to put missiles in Cuba and JFK was correct in stopping them, then it’s bad for the Ukraine to get in a security alliance with NATO where NATO can put arms close to Russia.)””””

Idiotic that you don’t know the difference between keeping European empires and wars out of this part of the world, the least violent and warlike, versus trying to prevent the horrors of the European World Wars in Europe and the conquest of the world by communism.

[nathanbedford]

rxh4n1: That is not Ukraine’s goal. They’ve loudly proclaimed they want all the stolen lands back, including the Crimea. So far, Ukraine has been unwilling to make territorial concessions. To achieve their maximalist goals will require a major expansion of the war.

Well of course the question posed assumes that there was an agreement by the terms of which Ukraine accepts a geography less than its original borders.

So, what is the answer?

I point out that any negotiator with only an elementary level of negotiating skill would make maximum demands at the beginning of negotiations. To concede the opponent's position at the beginning is to negotiate against oneself - the amateur mistake of negotiation that has already been made by Donald Trump when he conceded virtually all the demands of Putin and then compounded his unsolicited error by attempting to enforce it upon Ukraine when be humiliated Zelinski in the Oval Office.

It is beyond me to understand how an unwillingness to concede proprietorship of one's own stolen land in a war is a "maximalist goal" or how continuing to defend one's borders requires a "major expansion" of a war.

But, whatever your quibbles, what is your answer?

Captain Walker: it's bad for the Ukraine to get in a security alliance with NATO where NATO can put arms close to Russia.

I am curious whether you think it good or bad for Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, as members of NATO, to have arms close to Russia?

Silverleaf:

Yes

I assume your answer is yes but let them stew in their own juices.

Okay.

[Captain Walker]

I am curious whether you think it good or bad for Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, as members of NATO, to have arms close to Russia?

I think it's bad.

I think it reinforces every suspicion the Russians have of an overbearing West poking the bear.

[nathanbedford]

More than curious about how millions of souls that inhabit Finland, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland have been so cleverly deceived by NATO into believing that Russia is something other than a warm and cuddly fuzzy bear.

[nathanbedford]

We live in the age of nuclear tipped hypersonic rockets that can deliver utter destruction from afar in minimal time. In this world it matters not whether one's enemies' rockets come from neighboring Ukraine or from over the polar cap.

The age of the Cuban missile crisis belongs not to yesterday's newspaper but to the history books.

[Captain Walker]

More than curious about how millions of souls that inhabit Finland, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland have been so cleverly deceived by NATO into believing that Russia is something other than a warm and cuddly fuzzy bear.

More than curious about why NATO felt the need to expand and include the nations of Finland, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland after the Soviet Union collapsed (if we're not, in fact, actually poking the Russian bear).

[Article10]

I’d rather deal with a state capitals vs fedzilla and K street...

Remove the 17th and Every lobbyists now will have to deal with Every capital and state Senate and state House reps... whole Lotta work and way less likely to be successful..