Posted on 05/04/2025 4:43:07 PM PDT by ransomnote
It would have ended up Nazi Europe vs Communist USSR. I have a feeling it would not have been pretty.
However, I also believe that if the US had not entered the “great war”, Germany would have won and there would have been no rise of Nazism. But at the end of the day, I’m not sure the world would have been any better off. The US would not be as powerful today - probably. We were the big winner of WWII.
At the time, the concern was both Nazi Germany and Japan, if Japan wasn’t an issue, than Nazi Germany alone wasn’t a threat to the US, but the two combined, would have been.
What Hitler didn’t realize was that when he signed the Non-Aggression Pact with Stalin, that pissed off the Japs, who just a few months earlier, signed the “Anti-Comintern Pact” with Germany.
Then Japan goes and gets their butt kicked by Zhukov, at the Battle of Khalkin Gol, and basically sign their own Non-Aggression Pact with the Russians. So they were not going to help Hitler by fighting the Russians in Siberia.
I see the European and Pacific wars as basically two separate wars happening at the same time - for the most part. And If we had not been at war with Germany, we would have handled Japan easily. Even without the nukes.
It’s important to note that our leadership, regarding the European and Pacific wars, had the attitude of “Europe first”. The pacific war was secondary. Imagine the US fighting Japan with no European front.
But all these “what if” arguments really are sort of an exercise in futility. I’m just annoyed that the US joined the first world war. That is literally what gave us Hitler.
I’m just annoyed that the US joined the first world war. That is literally what gave us Hitler.
I’m right there with you on that, WWII was just a continuation of WWI. Japan was our ally during WWI, but didn’t feel they got enough of the spoils from being on the winning side.
Yep. They were really trying to join the western world at that time. You probably already knew this, that the guy that designed the Mitsubishi A6M (zero) was educated in the US.
Yamamoto spent time in the US, went to Harvard and travelled around the country, that’s why he knew getting into a war with the US was a bad idea.
I was visiting my dad in 2008. He was 86 at the time. Came down stairs for morning coffee and he was sitting at his usual seat lost is deep thought. I asked what was on his mind. He replied “a question I never asked, and an answer I will never know. He continued, I had been aboard USS Yorktown for two years. My GQ stations had always been In Repair 5 as a hose handler on #2 hose team. The day before the Battle of the Coral Sea, I had the morning watch in the engine room (my dad was a machines mate striker) Go to the foot of the ladder in the space and the division Chief was there. He said “Kelley, next GQ you will be on the lower level of the engine room.” Aye, Aye, Chief, next GQ lower level of the engine room. I wondered why the chief had changed my GQ station. But in those days you did not as a Chief “why”, you just did as the man told you to do. Next day GQ early, the Battle of the Coral Sea was on. Nothing much that day, some sharp maneuvering to avoid Jap bombs, but no hits. Next Day, GQ, early in the afternoon, we felt a sharp shudder in the ship. Word came down, we have been hit, check for damage. I checked the lower level and reported no damage. A few minutes later we heard Repair 5 had been hit. Later on, we learned a Jap 500 lb. bomb had pierced the flight and hanger decks, exploding in Repair 5 area. Most of those men were killed. The fireman that replaced me on the hose team was dead. As I would have been, if the Chief had not changed my GQ station. I never asked “why” he changed my GQ station, and I will never know.” But he saved my life, by doing so. My dad was on Yorktown when it sank. Spent the rest of the war on USS West Virginia. He died 2010.
Midway was just that - a needed staging point to prosecute the war effort across the huge area of the Pacific Ocean. Carriers would not have been enough IMHO.
I think we cannot minimize the factor of our surprise counterattack at Midway. Japan was confident that there would be no American carriers at Midway; they stated their concern was making the runways at Midway impossible to launch a counter attack.
To the best of my knowledge, the Japanese only realized late in the Battle of Midway that there had to be more than one American carrier on station. Two more carriers might have eventually carried the day, but would they have taken the risk of suffering the loss of more carriers.
When late information that one American carrier was the Yorktown came to Japanese command, I suspect that the shock of a recently damaged carrier launching a major counter offensive spooked them. Remember that they lacked any naval radar which made them vulnerable to any massive carrier counter attack. Something caused them to withdraw from Midway as something caused them to withdraw from the Coral sea... doubt and fear.
Their fear grew as much from facing an aggressive emperor as it did facing a weakened American defense. Their emperor did not cave with the dropping of one atomic bomb; the second drop had to bring panic to the Japanese military who convinced their emperor that the war was lost to this new super weapon.
Your dad was one of the greats. You didn’t question your Chief in the 1970’s. On the boats (submarines) either. The Chief of the Boat (the COB) and my M-Div Chief were ( the man). As an MM3SS I learned this straight away. I have no idea what the change of station your dad went through was about, but I’d bet it was need related. The Chief probably wanted a more experienced sailor below at the start of an anticipated battle, than the man that replaced him. Anyway, he was a good sailor and followed orders, a good shipmate to the crew . The loss of the Lexington at Coral Sea and Yorktown at Midway hurt. It’s what all us characters sign up for when we go in harm’s way. Godspeed to all who serve. Thanks for your story.
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