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Why ZELENSKY can't and won't give up Crimea
BBC ^ | April 24 | Paul Kirby

Posted on 04/24/2025 10:50:51 AM PDT by RandFan

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To: RandFan
Focus on Zelensky here is a straw man argument. He's not the ruler of Ukraine. It's a democracy. He is the elected President of Ukraine. He represents the Ukrainian people and THEY haven't given up on the war.

Ukraine is less dependent on the US right now than Britain was in 1940-41. I don't think they can continue the war for long if the US cuts off all military and financial aid unless the Europeans increase their financial aid a fair amount, but that is more than a mere possibility, and actually looks like they'll do it because that is overwhelmingly in their interest.

This is a war of attrition which Russia is losing. There are lots of indications not merely of significant strain on Russia, but of ultimate collapse due to declining hard currency earnings from the declining price of oil plus a decline in rail car loadings. At least 300,000 of Russia's pre-war stocks of two million rail cars are now deadlined for lack of rail car bearings.

The media simply does not cover such things.

41 posted on 04/24/2025 11:53:06 AM PDT by Thud
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To: crz

“That war, and the treaty after, resulted, and continues to result, in every conflict fought since and continues to be fought.”

My God if that isn’t the truth! We can thank the lying and clueless progressive, Wilson, for that as well as his progressive predecessor, Roosevelt, who with his third party run (remember Ross Perot?) got Wilson elected.


42 posted on 04/24/2025 12:17:16 PM PDT by KamperKen (u)
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To: RandFan
Since Ukraine decided not to be a good neighbor the Russians simply took back the gift they gave Ukraine.

.



43 posted on 04/24/2025 12:25:49 PM PDT by Karl Spooner (Putin: "Time to finish off the Ukraine troops"- 3/28/25)
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To: KamperKen

Just think. Might not have been a USSR. Might not have been WW2. Might not have had the results in the entire mid east.
SE Asia. Africa.
Even effected central and south America.
And the Ukraine.

That treaty agreed to after that war became the catalyst for every single conflict to this day.


44 posted on 04/24/2025 12:27:09 PM PDT by crz
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To: RandFan

Crimea is now Russian as it had been for centuries. They aren’t giving it up but Ukraine can pretend it will happen...


45 posted on 04/24/2025 12:29:23 PM PDT by packrat35 (Pureblood! No clot shot for me!)
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To: RandFan
I offer an Ode to the fallen in yet another useless fkng War...

Uriah Heep - Lady in Black (LYRICS)

46 posted on 04/24/2025 12:33:47 PM PDT by sit-rep (START DEMANDING INDICTMENTS NOW!!!!!)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Bookmark


47 posted on 04/24/2025 12:33:54 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: RandFan

In a better world Ukraine would be equally armed, have same size army as Russia. And would tell imperialist scumbag Putin to eff off about his warm water port. I have had dreams about this.

The next best outcome is that Putin croaks next week, and the Russian army slinks back to Moscow and points east. This can happen! Anything can happen.


48 posted on 04/24/2025 12:34:46 PM PDT by dennisw (💯🇺🇸 Truth is Hate to those who Hate the Truth. 🇺🇸💯)
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To: dennisw

None of that is going to happen...


49 posted on 04/24/2025 12:37:47 PM PDT by packrat35 (Pureblood! No clot shot for me!)
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To: Seruzawa; Jim W N

“This has always been about the Black Sea. It has been for centuries.”

Right. Crimea projects into the black sea, the Sebastopol Russian naval port is in the southern tip of Crimea. This is Russia vs Turkey, Tsars vs Ottomans, Christians vs Muslims. Turks control the Dardanelles straits. Sebastopol is the Russians counter-move.

Russia has the much larger busier warm water port of Novorossiysk for oil exports and other commercial traffic. Crimea is for projection of naval power. Not for exports.


50 posted on 04/24/2025 12:45:03 PM PDT by dennisw (💯🇺🇸 Truth is Hate to those who Hate the Truth. 🇺🇸💯)
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To: packrat35

No one thought a lot of things were going to happen. But they did.


51 posted on 04/24/2025 12:46:52 PM PDT by dennisw (💯🇺🇸 Truth is Hate to those who Hate the Truth. 🇺🇸💯)
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To: RandFan

Crimea was handed over to Ukraine under Khrushchev in the 1950’s. A LOT of Crimean residents, most, identified as Russians and were incensed over the hand-over. It is still largely a Russian-identifying region.


52 posted on 04/24/2025 12:54:10 PM PDT by fwdude (Why is there a "far/radical right," but damned if they'll admit that there is a far/radical left?)
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To: silverleaf

Gee, that comment bothered you that much? I frankly don’t care if he lied about it or not, but as long as we’re getting down off our moral high horse about politicians, let’s also stop the delusional thinking that puts Putin or any other politician up on a pedestal as a “devout, Christian leader” or regards a godless, murderous dictatorship like Russia as a “Christian” country to be emulated.


53 posted on 04/24/2025 1:07:45 PM PDT by sam_whiskey (Peace through Strength. )
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To: fwdude
Crimean residents, most, identified as Russians and were incensed over the hand-over. It is still largely a Russian-identifying region.

I haven't heard of any mass rebellions going on since this happened as one would expect if the referendum was "fixed". Only the Nazis loyal to the Kiev regime got their swastikas in wad about it.

.

BBC: Crimea referendum: Voters 'back Russia union'

Some 95.5% of voters in Crimea have supported joining Russia, officials say, after half the votes have been counted in a disputed referendum.

Crimea's leader says he will apply to join Russia on Monday. Russia's Vladimir Putin has said he will respect the Crimean people's wishes.

Many Crimeans loyal to Kiev boycotted the referendum, and the EU and US condemned it as illegal.

Pro-Russian forces took control of Crimea in February.

They moved in after Ukraine's pro-Moscow president Viktor Yanukovych was ousted after street protests."

54 posted on 04/24/2025 1:29:19 PM PDT by Karl Spooner (Putin: "Time to finish off the Ukraine troops"- 3/28/25)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

AI >>>

In 2010, polling in Crimea showed that support for joining Russia was significantly lower than the overwhelming majorities reported in the 2014 referendum. According to multiple reputable sources:

In 2010, about 33% of Crimeans supported joining Russia.

By 2011, this figure remained around 33%, and by 2012 it had dropped to less than 25%.

In 2013, support for joining Russia was 23% according to a poll cited in Wikipedia.

A poll conducted by the Kiev International Institute of Sociology in February 2014, just before the Russian intervention, found that 41% of Crimeans wanted Ukraine and Russia to merge into one state, though this may have been an overestimate compared to earlier years.

In summary, in 2010, roughly one-third (about 33%) of Crimeans wanted to be part of Russia, with support declining to about 23% by 2013.


55 posted on 04/24/2025 1:30:28 PM PDT by dennisw (💯🇺🇸 Truth is Hate to those who Hate the Truth. 🇺🇸💯)
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To: dennisw

Ai = repeat propaganda from a reliable source of propaganda.


56 posted on 04/24/2025 1:39:16 PM PDT by Karl Spooner (Putin: "Time to finish off the Ukraine troops"- 3/28/25)
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To: fastrock

57 posted on 04/24/2025 3:05:26 PM PDT by silverleaf (“Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out” —David Horowitz)
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To: WoofDog123
i think I and certainly others at the time said there was no way russia was letting itself be ejected from its naval facilities.

I thought the Black Sea Fleet has been ejected from Crimea for the most part.
58 posted on 04/24/2025 3:20:08 PM PDT by Chad_the_Impaler
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To: RandFan
I support Ukraine but must that in the end Russia will probably keep Crimea. But this is just one issue, and for the quid there needs to be a quo. To keep Crimea and end this war Russia needs to be willing to make some major concessions on its part. In a negotiation neither side gets everything that it wants.
59 posted on 04/24/2025 3:37:25 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: dennisw
"In summary, in 2010, roughly one-third (about 33%) of Crimeans wanted to be part of Russia, with support declining to about 23% by 2013."

Looks like Russia made quite a comeback if that were true. You better find a better Ai God you can really trust and then add a pinch of common sense.

.

2024 Russian presidential election


60 posted on 04/24/2025 3:47:44 PM PDT by Karl Spooner (Putin: "Time to finish off the Ukraine troops"- 3/28/25)
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