Russia wants Kursk back before negotiations. Ukraine isn’t budging.

Washington Post ^ | 11/16/2024 | Siobhán O'Grady, Serhii Korolchuk, Francesca Ebel and Sarah Cahlan

[Petrosius]

Thanks for the good news. Why should Russia be immune from the same attacks that they are afflicting on the Ukrainians? If the Russians do not want to be attacked all that they have to do is end this war and go home.

[ANKE69]

Blah, blah, blah...
You might want to read something more truthful, instead of your provided propaganda chit sheet.
You zeepers are a joke.
Sitting in your basements pretending to be big brave war heros, supporting the FJB regime and the rats, cheering for WW3 with the devil Soros and having the nerve to lecture patriotic FReepers. FU big mouthed coward.

[Kazan]

How convenient the link doesn't work.

[Kazan]

From a Google search:

Deaths by regions

Donetsk region 4,374 civilians killed 6 April 2014 – 18 February 2022

Luhansk region 2,269 civilians killed 6 April 2014 – 23 February 2022

[Petrosius]

My apologies, I typed it in wrong. Try this:

https://ukraine.un.org/en

[Petrosius]

Link please. And now break it down by year.

[Petrosius]

I take it from your resorting to a baseless personal attack that you have no rational response. My apologies if the facts do not match what you would prefer.

[TheBattman]

You couldn’t be more wrong. I don’t get ANY of my Ukraine/Russia news from any mainstream or legacy news. I get it from people on the ground.

No such place as “The” Ukraine.

[kiryandil]

The Ukraine is losing the war.

[MalPearce]

The result of all the collated figures in all the monthly and annual reports collected by Russia's own proxies is shown on the DNR Ombudsman website - the website of the Donetsk based outfit implanted by the Kremlin, which operated from the very same building as the FSB. The 2020 source data is included in an annual report, which was published on https://ombudsman-dnr.ru/doklad-upolnomochennogo-po-pravam-cheloveka-v-donetskoy-narodnoy-respublike/ (but the site has been cleaned up in the last month to get rid of the inconvenient statistics.) w

The 2021 data that should've gone into another annual summary PDF was so unfavorable to Russian propaganda that it was left obfuscated inside the monthly reports, never even making it into an annual summary.

Before they killed these documents, the report could be found in English here: https://eng.ombudsman-dnr.ru/the-overview-of-the-current-social-and-humanitarian-situation-in-the-territory-of-the-donetsk-peoples-republic-as-a-result-of-hostilities-between-25-and-30-december-2021/. And it read as follows:

     The overview of the current social and humanitarian situation 
     in the territory of the Donetsk People`s Republic as a result of 
     hostilities between 25 and 30 December 2021

     Within the period between 1 January and 30 December 2021, in the 
     territory of the DPR, 129 people sustained injuries ... 
     97 servicemen of the Republic and 32 civilians. 

     Within the period between 1 January and 30 December 2021, in the 
     territory of the DPR, 7 civilians and 70 servicemen of the 
     Republic died ... 

Example 2: Jan 2022 monthly report | ombudsman-dnr.ru

     CASES OF INJURIES AND TRAUMAS OF VARYING SEVERITY AS A RESULT OF 
     ARMED AGGRESSION BY UKRAINE IN THE TERRITORY OF THE DPR FROM 
     JANUARY 01, 2022 TO JANUARY 28, 2022 
     CIVILIANS: 0 
     SERVICEMEN OF THE REPUBLIC: 2 
     IN TOTAL: 2 

     DEATH TOLL AS A RESULT OF ARMED AGGRESSION BY UKRAINE IN THE 
     TERRITORY OF THE DPR FROM JANUARY  01, 2022 TO JANUARY 21, 2022 
     CIVILIANS: 0
     SERVICEMEN: 1 

There's no equivalent data summarised in the Feb 2022 monthly report because the DNR didn't want to advertise the difference between the single digit deaths in that month pre-invasion and the multi-digit numbers after it. Doing so would've conclusively proved that the invasion on a "genocide" pretext was a false flag. But you can forensically gather their metrics by reading subsequent articles, add the numbers up. For example,




I have repeatedly reminded you and your fellow vranyo peddlers that the UN figures are drawn from the reports that a Russian backed agency operating under Pushilin's jurisdiction with the FSB sat in the same building, has been reporting to Moscow, month on month, for the last ten years. Funny how none of you vranyo gobblers ever have an answer to that.

The reason we know Putin's BS factory in St Petersburg is lying, because we know that its propaganda does not match what its own observers in the Donbas have been reporting back to them.

[MalPearce]

Addendum: The January 2021 example is “The Overview of the Current Social and Humanitarian Situation in the Territory of the Donetsk People’s Republic as a Result of Hostilities Between 23 and 29 January 2021”:

https://perma.cc/GGZ4-EXUA

Which says, for the entire month, there were three deaths due to the conflict. Three. And all three were blamed on Ukraine, because they were DPR service personnel.

Pretty much every month from December 2019 to February 2022 looks like that. So when Putin’s mouthpieces talk about genocide in the Donbas from 2019 onwards, they are literally saying that single digit casualty numbers per month constituted a genocide.

[Kazan]

The result of all the collated figures in all the monthly and annual reports collected by Russia's own proxies is shown on the DNR Ombudsman website - the website of the Donetsk based outfit implanted by the Kremlin

Even if that was true and it is a big if, who the hell cares?

The Maiden coup was absolutely orchestrated by the CIA, its scumbag British counterparts, and Soros' NGOs.

It was illegal coup that resulted in a President being thrown out of office that the vast majority in Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea voted for. Those in those regions HAD EVERY RIGHT TO SEEK THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND ASSISTANCE FROM RUSSIA.

Ukraine has been puppet state and colony of us and NATO since 2014. The Ukrainian military has been funded, trained and armed by us and other NATO countries.

The whole war has been under the control of NATO commanders.

Leaders of NATO countries like France and Germany have bragged about having Ukraine sign peace treaties like the Minsk Accords and violating them.

A war pig, the combophobic Boris Johnson killed a peace deal in Turkey in March of 2022 that would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Ukraine is far more of a puppet state of NATO than Donetsk and Lugansk were of Russia.

You refuse to grasp that everything that happened in Ukraine is result of our and other NATO countries meddling in that nation. NATO, not Russia, has been the aggressors. And, the vast majority of the world knows it.

[Petrosius]

Kazan knows all of this because he has been instructed in it multiple times. Rather, he choses to ignore it in order to justify Russia’s actions.

[Petrosius]

It was illegal coup that resulted in a President being thrown out of office that the vast majority in Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea voted for. Those in those regions HAD EVERY RIGHT TO SEEK THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND ASSISTANCE FROM RUSSIA.

Even if we were to stipulate that there was a coup — something that I am not willing to do — the Russian minority in these territories would still not be justified in immediately resorting to force of arms before seeking a constitutional redress of their grievances. There were two subsequent elections in which they could have done that. But let's drop the pretense; the seizing of these territories was not an action of the people of these territories but of Russia working through local surrogates (in the case of Donetsk and Luhansk) or directly through its own clandestine military forces (in the case of Crimea).

[Kazan]

Even if we were to stipulate that there was a coup — something that I am not willing to do

It's not even arguable that it was illegal coup.

Yanukovych was elected democratically and removed from office illegally.

Oblasts that voted for him were under no obligation to remain part of Ukraine. And, they didn't. There isn't damn thing you or anyone else can do about it.

Suck it up.

[Kazan]

the Russian minority in these territories would still not be justified in immediately resorting to force of arms before seeking a constitutional redress of their grievances.

You mean like 39 people in Odessa did when the organized a petition drive AND THEN LOCKED INTO TRADE BUILDING AND BURNED TO DEATH.

That's the evil YOU are defending.

[MalPearce]

That’s rubbish. Name any other country on earth where butthurt from a tiny fraction of self appointed Soviet Union nostalgia freaks (no more than 6000 out of a population over 5 million) are so important that their butthurt is considered good enough causus belli for the entire civil service in two regions to be overturned to extremists who were so dodgy even Putin wouldn’t actively commit to recognising them for eight years.

By Russian tourists.

It was Russia that did the coup, three times. Once in Lugansk, once in the Donbas, once in Crimea.

Yanukovych was so balls deep in kompromat that even his own party refused to back him, his own government resigned, and most of his own voters changed allegiance. His betrayal of Ukraine on 17th December 2013 was a violation of his constitutional oath, far worse than Benedict Arnold’s. His own political backers were in favor of his impeachment.

He high tailed it to his whore master in Moscow rather than face impeachment.

[MalPearce]

Ooooh. 39. That’s not a causus belli for an invasion.

It’s a third of the body count on the pro European side, whose deaths were caused by caused by the pro Russian treason.