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Tesla Vs. Toyota: Electric Dreams Clash With Hybrid Revival In Automotive Showdown
Technical Trading ^ | 12/07/23 | Nabaparna Bhattacharya

Posted on 12/07/2023 7:45:05 AM PST by SeekAndFind

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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Agree totally. I would have no problem getting a hybrid but never an EV.


21 posted on 12/07/2023 8:33:50 AM PST by NewHampshireDuo ( )
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

You are correct, the government presence distorts all reason and if it means hybrids to keep the rats placated that is what we are stuck with. Toyota is looking like the sharpest knife in the drawer now. Of course they have the advantage of being Japanese and not totally under the US Government boots.


22 posted on 12/07/2023 8:39:21 AM PST by gibsonguy
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To: allendale; gibsonguy
ICE cars are freedom machines. All others are restrictions on personal liberty to varying degrees.

I agree 100% if we're talking about choosing just one option (i.e. I have just an ICE or just a hybrid or just an EV.) But since I need 2 cars anyway (like most married couples) I find that having one car an ICE and the other car an EV gives me a freedom of choice every day we decide which to drive.

Combine that with the multiple ways the Dims are attacking energy, IMHO mine and my wife's transportation is more secure by not having all of our cars' energy in one energy type basket. In other words, if the Dims keep making electricity more expensive (IMHO it's already there) and less reliable (not yet in Alabama), no problem, we can do most of our driving in the ICE pickup. If the Dims make gasoline scarce and/or too expensive (IMHO it's still too expensive), no problem, we can do most of our driving in the EV.

All the more so in our specific case by the fact that we have tons of solar, to the point that 80% of our power comes from solar (buying only 20% of our needed power from the grid). That includes charging the EV (in the past 12 months we've charged the EV at home for 16K miles, that's 1,300 miles per month, not counting charging it away from home on trips).

I'm not saying it's best for all use cases. Nor do I like the fact that the Dims make it tougher (we should all be able to gas up easily and cheaply). I'm just saying it is what it is and, therefore, there are plenty of people in a situation where having an EV as part of your two-car fleet helps restore some liberty.

23 posted on 12/07/2023 8:45:45 AM PST by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: FreeReign

“Us gas only drivers rooting for the hybrid Toyota Prius to save our gasoline supply from being taken off the market. Go Toyota Prius.”

Exactly right! It’s a compromise with the tyrannical dictators.

Of course, the greeniacs are never sated. Never. They will MAYBE agree to keep gasoline available for hybrids...for a while. Five years? Ten? Twenty Five? But make no mistake they will smell blood and be back for the final kill of eliminating all fossil fuels.

It’s no different than the progs never being sated about anything. After all their LGBTQABCXYZ wins and societal destruction, their new goal is sex with anything, anybody, any age, anywhere.

Sex, fossil fuels, and Jews...it’s all they ever think about.


24 posted on 12/07/2023 8:58:49 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom (“Occupy your mind with good thoughts or your enemy will fill them with bad ones.” ~ Thomas More)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
hybrid cars use a fossil fuel engine to backup the electric motor plant

Hybrids -- as distinct from "plug-in hybrids" (PHEVs) -- aren't using the ICE as a backup; the ICE is the original source of all of the car's energy.

The hybrid just recaptures the car's kinetic energy during braking and coasting, and uses it to charge a battery. The power generated runs all of the car's electrics, and can be used as supplemental motive power, or even exclusive motive power for short distances at low speeds.

This has other benefits -- the ICE can be optimized more for fuel economy instead of power (a/k/a the "Atkinson cycle" engine), and you can get away with a smaller ICE anyway, since you have electric assist for quick starts from stop.

This is in contrast to a conventional car, which mostly wastes energy in braking and coasting by turning it into heat and worn brake linings.

25 posted on 12/07/2023 9:02:48 AM PST by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Tell It Right

There you go again, using that “F” word. “F” as in FREEDOM. To Progs, it is like a silver cross to a vampire.

The Progs are absolutely convinced they know exactly how everybody should live, what products they should be allowed to purchase, where they should be allowed to travel and how often, if babies should live...they are the absolute worst communists.

They never given an inch when it comes to restricting FREE people from making their own choices about their own lives.


26 posted on 12/07/2023 9:03:55 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom (“Occupy your mind with good thoughts or your enemy will fill them with bad ones.” ~ Thomas More)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
I agree that hauling around all that weight of an ICE, electric motors, a heavier power transmission and distribution system, and batteries doesn’t seem to make much sense on paper.

You get to delete most of a conventional car's transmission*, the starter, the alternator, and you can use a smaller ICE and a smaller 12v battery, since the 12v battery doesn't start the ICE.

*Hybrids have a transmission, but it's simpler and lighter in weight than a conventional automatic.

27 posted on 12/07/2023 9:05:54 AM PST by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Campion

Good point about the ICE being the source of all power in the car.

But doesn’t the ICE shut off and the hybrid runs all-electric in city driving? Then the ICE turns on to charge the battery? Or does the ICE run 100% of the time like a diesel locomotive?


28 posted on 12/07/2023 9:06:56 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom (“Occupy your mind with good thoughts or your enemy will fill them with bad ones.” ~ Thomas More)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
But doesn’t the ICE shut off and the hybrid runs all-electric in city driving? Then the ICE turns on to charge the battery? Or does the ICE run 100% of the time like a diesel locomotive?

In between those two extremes. For example, say you're coasting downhill -- doesn't have to be in city driving, could be cruising downhill on the Interstate at 70 mph -- and you're either (a) not using the heater; or (b) the car is thoroughly warmed up. Then it's likely that the ICE will shut off, especially if the battery is close to full charge. When you start up the next hill, the ICE will restart.

The same thing goes for sitting at a stoplight.

The engine shutoff is unobtrusive -- you don't necessarily know that it's happened unless you look down at the tach, which reads "0". Engine startup is a little more noticeable, especially if the engine is very cold.

On battery only, going at 25-30 mph, over reasonably flat ground, my hybrid would have a range of maybe 5 miles on a full charge.

29 posted on 12/07/2023 9:23:21 AM PST by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: SeekAndFind

Drove an aunt’s Prius from central Kansas to Marietta Georgia and back. I did most of the driving - she has a few years on me.

Ran nice, reasonably comfortable for four days on the road down and back. Mileage was 57 MPG and I am not light on the gas. A little shy on power for my tastes but good enough.

It’s a perfectly reasonable choice and I understand why Toyota sells a lot of them. I’ll stick with my ICE but I was pleasantly surprised by the Prius.


30 posted on 12/07/2023 9:32:20 AM PST by dagunk
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
IMHO, one of the traps we fall for as conservatives is we let the Dims frame the argument. And they always define the argument as a choice between two mutual exclusive options that and they'll force people to go with a specific one. Unfortunately, most of the time conservatives take the bait and say that no one should go with that option, everybody should do the other. (Dims say everybody should be forced to drive EV's, and conservatives say EV's are the worst option for everybody.)

The best scenario is get the political class out of the way and let everybody choose what they need or want. If some want ICE, fine. If others want EV, fine. If some want both, fine. Same for virtually all other arguments unrelated to cars (with exceptions, obviously, for laws about hurting others and stealing from others, etc., nobody should be allowed to do that).

31 posted on 12/07/2023 9:33:34 AM PST by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Going to a Toyota plant next week.

Construction site

Batteries

8 Billion


32 posted on 12/07/2023 9:36:59 AM PST by eyedigress (Trump is my President!)
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To: Campion
Wiki has this description of the Hybrid Synergy Drive (HSD) power flows. I had no idea it was this complicated. What an amazing engineering achievement to make all of this completely invisible to the driver!

The HSD system replaces the geared transmission, alternator, and starter motor with:

Through the power splitter, a series-parallel full hybrid's HSD system thus allows for the following intelligent power flows:


33 posted on 12/07/2023 9:39:29 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom (“Occupy your mind with good thoughts or your enemy will fill them with bad ones.” ~ Thomas More)
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To: SeekAndFind

I wish Tesla would make a hybrid.


34 posted on 12/07/2023 9:40:47 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: Tell It Right

“The best scenario is get the political class out of the way”

Wouldn’t that be nice? That’s the world we grew up in. It’s gotten SO BAD the past 50 or so years.

Every day you wake up to stories like Newsom telling stores in CA how much “nongender specific toy floor area” they must have.

The political class has gotten so big, so powerful that the only thing they look out for is the continuation and propagation of their own species. Just like any living organism.

But how to tame it? It keeps getting bigger and growing more weapons to anything that threatens it.

It truly has become a Frankenstein Monster devouring us all.

I’ve read many good articles about this, but none of them speak to solutions.


35 posted on 12/07/2023 9:43:51 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom (“Occupy your mind with good thoughts or your enemy will fill them with bad ones.” ~ Thomas More)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
Hybrids make so much more sense.

I've always thought so. Diesel electrics would be even better, but diesel is an anathema to the leftist gaia worshippers. D/E is proven technology, but we can't do it because of propaganda from the know-nothings.

36 posted on 12/07/2023 9:57:43 AM PST by zeugma (Stop deluding yourself that America is still a free country.)
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To: Roadrunner383

IMO the regular ICE 4-cyl Camry is the real bargain.
///////////////////////////////
Good point. But, according to the article, it won’t be on offer for much longer.


37 posted on 12/07/2023 10:44:45 AM PST by Honest Nigerian
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

If you want to be smug with your EV, live in Florida or Arizona and get solar panels. Not saying that I would do this. But “free” electricity and very low cost per mile is something.
I know - homeowner insurance.
Free market is not a thing anymore, so pick your poison.


38 posted on 12/07/2023 10:50:16 AM PST by Honest Nigerian
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To: zeugma

A diesel hybrid powertrain would seem to me to be ideal for something like a mail truck, that has to do frequent stops and slow-speed driving ... but nobody builds one.


39 posted on 12/07/2023 10:51:34 AM PST by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
Yep. It's even more remarkable that it -- usually -- works without much trouble for 100k-150k miles, given normal maintenance. (Yes, you do need to change the oil!)

I wouldn't say it's "completely invisible to the driver," though. A quick-start from a stoplight, where the ICE starts up midway through the intersection, is disconcerting at first. An instant of "just on battery and not going fast enough," then an instant of "driving on marbles" (the engine cranking), and the sensation of a clutch slipping and then grabbing. (That isn't really what's happening -- it's just how it feels.)

Add to that: the car awards you a grade on your driving after every trip. It's a tough grader, too; it's difficult to get a grade >90, and not always obvious how to do it. You'll drive normally, w/o paying attention to the car, and get a 94. Then another time, you'll be trying hard to economize, and get a 71. :-(

40 posted on 12/07/2023 10:56:59 AM PST by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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