Posted on 09/03/2023 10:10:00 AM PDT by daniel1212
Free will can be a good thing or a bad thing.
5.56mm
Alexander, obviously you have not kept up with the latest and greatest religion in the world today. Climate change causes all natural disasters, such as earthquakes, volcanoes, wild fires, pandemics, bad behavior in children, etc. etc... and is the root of everything else that is evil in the world. God hates everything that emits CO2 or greenhouse gasses, especially large SUVs and cows, but also farts and heating and cooling systems.
The better argument is can God be all knowing and can you have free will? If he’s all knowing and knows your decisions and your end fate then it cannot be free will.
Here is what I would tell any victim of tragedy:
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. From the book of Revelation.
When a child suffers and dies, he is with the Lord and his suffering is gone, and not even remembered.
For the atheists out there, you have never justified your faith in atheism because it is objectively false.
I didn’t think you were threatening me with dire consequences.
Stop deflecting! We can discuss my personal thoughts another day. Let's first deal with the essay at hand. Someone was bold enough - cock-sure enough - to post this assemblage of claims and statements of supposed fact.
The author / poster has, in effect, said: "I KNOW the truth! Here it is! Have at it!"
They have invited us to test it! So let's take them up on their offer!
(My personal "innermost thoughts" might have as little to do with this topic as the price of tea in China, after all!)
So let's first examine it in detail, determine the merits of the individual assertions, and - if possible - attempt to assess their truth-value.
I've already taken one of the essay's assertions ("For unless you want a world in which mankind is like a cloud or a robot, then allowing evil is a necessary good") and simply responded: "Okay, I'll take being like a cloud, or a robot!"
Presto! No more suffering!
Rather than saying, "Hey, that's actually a legitimate alternative!", the posters here have attempted deflection and distraction - and "going into the weeds."
I, for one, am taking the offer at face-value! Yes, make us all clouds! Then no human beings ever experience suffering, and no one is ever damned to eternal perdition!
Sounds like a great deal!
But, of course, it was an ingenuous offer!
Regards,
If atheism were justifiable intellectually or morally, then such justification would be known.
Some folks around here had rumblings about what might happen to non-believers in Christianity both in the here and now and in the future...don’t recall if you were one of them...of course the Old Testament gets a bit threatening....
I have not heard anyone on this thread claim to be an atheist...
Stop beating the poor straw man.
Boy did he get pissed at me.
I apologize, I didn’t see your posting of your personal thoughts on the question. It must have been to someone else. Now I know you did post them.
So you have spoken a rare opinion—that you would like to have no free will.
But maybe you’re only making this claim rhetorically. That is, maybe you don’t really hold this opinion.
So, our employing our - what you call "God-given" - powers of reasoning in order to determine with the greatest possible degree of certainty whether this is false or not will be punished.
Regards,
Plantinga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRx-3drWC-E
Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtx5GyP7i7w
And which is nother verse used by ignorant antitheists in order to charge God with actually creating evil, as in evil intents, character, the devil himself. Yet the verse, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things," (Isa 45:7) uses word for evil in contrast to peace, as darkness is to light.
As manifest in the (ignored) larger content of the Bible, the sense in which it is meant is such as that of God justly sending judgment, (cf. Amos 3:6) by His own power, or even by allowing what evil entities seek to do, but not for the purposes of what is actually evil, but to work for what is just, as well as in showing mercy.
God sent evil upon Egypt in order to free the Hebrews, and thus hardening the hard heart of evil Pharaoh by acts which should have worked repentance. And which hardness was a choice of Pharaoh which was a result of previous choices. In this sense Pharaoh manifested his wickedness, like as did that of Pilate, yet in both cases it served a revelatory as well as salvific purpose, to the glory of God.
And as somewhat expressed before, what is evil and good is ultimately manifested in the light of eternity.
But do they engender Human suffering?
Regards,
Did I accuse you of being an atheist? No.
Then you have nothing to fear when I address the topic of atheism (which is already front and center in any discussion like this one).
Most, if not all of Lewis' books are available from Project Gutenberg Canada, due their slightly less insane copyright laws.
Reason brings us to faith.
How could it leave us, ultimately, in doubt?
C.S.Lewis was a great author—and managed to make his case without threats or warnings....
And Hitler would never have been born. And Santorini wouldn't have erupted in 1600 B.C., destroying the Minoan Civilization.
Hurrah!
I wish that we had gotten our COMPLETE DUE the instant it was due.
If only!
Regards,
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