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Physicists Conduct The Most Massive Test Ever of The Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Paradox
Science Alert ^ | June 12, 2023 | Michelle Starr

Posted on 06/13/2023 7:53:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

click here to read article


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To: pierrem15

“If correlative state changes are detectable and repeatable, then its simply a matter of which one is 0 and which one is 1. Plus a clock on each end. Same as measuring voltage on a gate.”

Not quite, since state changes also happen at random when a person is not interacting with the entangled particles on the other end. So the only possible way to determine if actual data is being sent is to have a classical communication channel that accompanies the entangled particles, which means the entire system is slowed down to light speed or below.


21 posted on 06/13/2023 10:16:11 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
"They measured the quantum properties of the condensates known as pseudospins, independently choosing which value to measure for each cloud."

If they detected a change A in cloud 1 correlative to a change B in cloud 2, then information is being transmitted instantaneously. The question then is whether it must be simply random, or whether a change/measurement in cloud One can be induced that is consistent with another change/measurement in cloud 2. Plus a clock and filters for noise, etc.

22 posted on 06/13/2023 10:26:11 AM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: pierrem15

“then information is being transmitted instantaneously”

Yes, but not useable information. Until you can distinguish whether it is purposefully transmitted information or random noise, it is unusable. And to distinguish that requires classical (sublight) communication of information.

Believe me, you’re far from the first person to think it can be used like this, and far from the first to be disappointed that it cannot. This has been well established for decades.


23 posted on 06/13/2023 10:32:53 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: SunkenCiv

I have to go let a cat out of a box. I think.


24 posted on 06/13/2023 10:35:59 AM PDT by Vermont Lt
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To: SunkenCiv

As gravity is a function of curved space, it doesn’t have to ‘travel’ and doesn’t have a speed. In the same way, entanglement is a property of space itself. ‘What’ property is to be considered. Imho at least.


25 posted on 06/13/2023 10:52:46 AM PDT by Track9 (You are far too inquisitive not to be seduced…)
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To: pierrem15

The problem with that is there is no way to know what state the particle would be in when you observe it. Then there’s the whole problem of which tangled quanta is observed first. If the receiver is already looking at it, then the sender has nothing to change by his observation...

I will have it all figured out soon. I just need a few billion more tax dollars to fund it. And of course it will lead to a revolution in “green” energy so if you happen to know any democrats tell them I am in immediate need of some pork....


26 posted on 06/13/2023 12:19:18 PM PDT by Organic Panic (Democrats. Memories as short as Joe Biden's eyes)
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To: Boogieman; Organic Panic
I think I understand what you mean. If the far side detects a change B at time X, it has now way of knowing whether that's because of some change induced at time X on the near side or just random quantum noise at time X.

The article is poorly written then, because it suggests that through some statistical analysis they were able to detect a pattern. Although it may just be that the "pattern" is that a change in A was accompanied by a statistically significant and related change in B that showed the two were entangled.

27 posted on 06/13/2023 12:57:19 PM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: pierrem15

Well, you can tell if there is a change in the entangled particle on the other end, but you have to pick up your telephone and call the other lab and say “I just did something to particle A”. Then they’ll know the change in particle B is due to your manipulation and not some other cause.

Being able to manipulate entangled particles like that is nothing new; it seems the new thing this article is excited about is using an Einstein-Bose condensate, where all the particles are harmonized and acting in unison, like the photons in a laser, so that you can entangle larger and larger groups of particles. But it is standard fare for pop-sci writers to imply that entanglement can be used for instantaneous communication or “teleportation”, etc, because that will interest the general public and get them clicks. In reality, science has a whole theorem developed about why that can’t work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem


28 posted on 06/13/2023 1:24:03 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Re-read the article, which I misunderstood. They were just reading different property changes, and when they occurred, they occurred in both Bose-Einstein condensates in such a way that it showed entanglement in the two clouds. So it’s just that the entanglement phenomenon is found at a larger scale than individual particles.


29 posted on 06/13/2023 1:57:29 PM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: Boogieman

“...distinguish whether it is purposefully transmitted information or random noise...” - that was solved for noisy analog commo last century; every character has a prefix, no prefix, then it’s not a character, it’s just noise. Very slow, but it worked.


30 posted on 06/13/2023 5:39:47 PM PDT by curious7
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To: Vermont Lt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFBrRKnJMq4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFBrRKnJMq4


31 posted on 06/13/2023 5:58:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: curious7

Well, you also have an additional problem with quantum states, in that you have to measure them to receive the message, and measuring them changes the state of the entangled system. So you can’t just be a passive receiver like if you leave a radio turned on waiting for the message. Has the state changed because someone on the other side is sending a message? Or has it just changed because of the last time you took a measurement?

And you can’t just measure once to check for a “prefix”, since you are limited to a very few manipulations of quantum systems, so you can only send bits (or qbits) of information. A prefix can’t just be a “zero” or a “one” but would have to be a unique string of such data, and that means you would have to take multiple measurements (each changing the system) to check for a prefix. I don’t think that’s workable.


32 posted on 06/14/2023 7:18:06 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Thanks.


33 posted on 06/15/2023 7:14:05 AM PDT by curious7
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