Posted on 01/20/2023 8:38:32 AM PST by PGR88
“But it’s also fair to point out that Hungary was a somewhat reluctant ally of Nazi Germany”
Maybe, but they took to it with enthusiasm. One quote:
“Nazi observers wrote with surprise at the particular cruelty of the Hungarians with occupied peoples subjected to arbitrary violence.”
When the *Nazis* find you to be too vicious you’re going pretty far.
“But that’s not the case here. Borders move. That was partially true after WW I. So it wasn’t Hungarians moving to Ukraine. It was the Ukrainian border moving over Hungarians.
In cases like that, I would think that folks have a right to preserve their heritage. Kinda like American Indians on a reservation.
Not just you, but the UNITED NATIONS. In fact it’s a Crime Against Humanity to force established communities to change their language and culture to match their new masters.
But, for the people here who want to PURIFY UKRAINE, obviously this is no issue to them - nor is it an issue for the Western Media, since they do are now into ETHNIC CLEANSING, as long as it’s being done by their buddies.
WW2 borders changed tremendously, so a lot of people ended up on the "wrong" side. The "controversy" is over whether public schools in Ukraine primarily teach in Ukrainian or not. Hungary demanding that Ukrainian schools in Ukraine teach primarily in Hungarian is ridiculous.
“Split the hole of a country up and parcel it out and execute every single Banderite and Azov bastard found.”
In the end, I think a growing business in Ukraine will be tattoo removal, particularly the Nazi tattoos of the Banderites. Then, if the Banderites can fake being civilized long enough, after removing their Nazi tattoos, they may just be able to slip under the Russian radar.
Hungary’s history in WW II is rather odd. As you noted, they sometimes were as bad as the Nazis.
On the other hand, even Stalin realized that Hungary wasn’t all that willing a participant. When the Soviets overran Hungary, the NKVD wanted to arrest Admiral Horthy, the de facto ruler of Hungary for most of WW II. The NKVD wanted to punish him just like all the other Axis leaders.
No, said Stalin, let the old man go. (Horthy eventually ended up in exile in Portugal.)
It’s also interesting to note that Horthy would not allow the SS to arrest any Hungarian Jews. In fact, he told the Hungarian police to resist such efforts. It was only after Horthy was toppled by the Germans in 1944 that the deportations began.
As you might have guessed, I am of Hungarian descent. That whole time period - and Horthy‘s actions there - are a subject of debate in my family to this day. And, yeah. Some of them have a bit of trouble with the facts.
"Budapest: The Stalingrad of the Waffen-SS"
Does Hungary allow schools to teach their students in any language they want? Or does Hungary maintain that students must be taught in Hungarian?
The surest way to Balkanization and disintegration is to not have a nationally recognized common language, and that language should be the language of government and education. People should be free to speak whatever the hell language they want at home, or among themselves. There is no unity in division.
“What say you, war whores?”
War whores?
Let’s say some US servicemen — let’s make them USAF — go into town and go to a bar, and disturb the regulars. The regulars call the police to kick out the servicemen, and some even join in beating them up and kicking them out, while others among them cheered them on.
Now, let’s say that instead of a bar, it is a country — say, Ukraine. And instead of GIs, say they are foreign troops — say, Russian. Instead of the local police, say it is the national army of Ukraine. And instead of bar regulars, say they are Ukrainian citizens.
Now, going back to the initial scenario, according to you those bar regulars would be akin to “war whores.”
Get it?
I found this: Schools and Education for Expats in Hungary.
“The official language of instruction in Hungary is Magyar (Hungarian), which tends to dissuade many expats from enrolling their children in the public education system. Some public schools do offer extra Hungarian language classes for foreigners, but this is at the school’s discretion and little further assistance can be expected.”
Sounds like Hungary is accusing Ukraine of doing that which Hungary itself does.
“If you think it’s a problem that some Ukrainians sided with the Nazis, then you’re going to be very angry when you learn what Hungary got up to in WWII.”
No kidding.
“That is why Russia is in their hellhole right now. If they quit attacking people in their own country, they would be left alone.”
Hilarious!
Be fair, the Nazis engineered a coup to install a friendly government in Budapest in 44, and that's when all the real bad stuff began. They sure did make up for lost time, though.
“Those Hungarians have every right to teach their children Hungarian. They even have the right to teach them only Hungarian. But it is a major mistake to teach them only Hungarian.”
Then you should have no issue with Ukraine, because Ukrainian schools teach other languages, as well. There is a big difference between teaching another language in school and the school teaching IN another language.
Yes, Hungary has a more mixed role in WWII. Not as bad as the Nazis, but more on the level of Italy or Vichy France.
Hungary also got an unfair deal after WWI, and had some justified grievances.
But there is enough red in their ledger from WWII to be sentenced to a permanent loss of those territories.
One thing I don’t understand is why there is little anger towards the Russians. 1956 was as bad as anything the Soviets did to Poland. But Poland hates the Russians with a fiery passion and are using the Ukraine war to extract a pound of flesh from their oppressors.
The Hungarians seem content to forgive and forget 40 years of Soviet tyranny.
The same could be said of the Ukrainians who fought with the Dirlewanger Waffen-SS batallion. Even the Nazis were aghast at the atrocities they committed.
I suggest you look up Khatyn Massacre. Belarusians suffered brutally from Ukrainians who joined the Nazis.
Also, long live Orban and Hungary. Orban is the best leader in Europe.
Every single nation the Germans occupied had their collaborators. Every society has a faction that will sell out their nation for power. In total numbers the Russians had more than anyone.
Better than getting shot, which some wanted to do.
You little punks go out into town to create havoc because you think you have the right to destroy local gathering places therefor you got what you had coming.
Its called an education.
Seems the base commander agreed since they had to pay for damages caused.
I suspect you were on the receiving end of one of those lessons.
Did not seem to effect your filthy little mind though.
> [Hungary] more on the level of Italy or Vichy France <
I completely agree. In fact, with your permission I think I’ll start using that analogy myself.
> The Hungarians seem content to forgive and forget 40 years of Soviet tyranny. <
I don’t see that among my Hungarian relatives and friends, at all. None of them like the Russians, even a little. The older ones are particularly resentful. A friend of mine spent 10 years in a Soviet gulag for preaching the gospel in Budapest. This was in the early 1960s. That guy and his entire family hate the Russians. And they’ll tell you every chance they get.
Yet the current Hungarian government seems to be slightly pro-Russian in the current conflict.
I believe that’s because the prime minister, Viktor Orbán, puts Hungary first. And since Hungary is dependent on Russian energy, he’s got to be very diplomatic and very careful.
Project much, Sparky?
“I suspect you were on the receiving end of one of those lessons.”
Never. Because when I went to a bar I went to enjoy a cold beer and listen to the juke box.”
“Better than getting shot, which some wanted to do.”
I was shot at at a bar once; but it had nothing to do with me; I was just there, and some idiot I didn’t know started shooting in my direction. For all I know he was shooting at the mirror behind the bar, because that is what the bullet hit. I just happened to be close by.
“Did not seem to effect your filthy little mind though.”
What “filthy little mind?” Of course, I have never said anything to you even remotely associated with such a condition. Perhaps it is you, projecting again.
You have a problem: You get overly excited over nothing; you assume things that are not real; and you are a fantasist. You need to take a chill pill.
And you HATE it when someone challenges or negates or throws one of your narratives back at you; because, truth be told, you are just a blowhard.
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