Posted on 01/02/2023 6:13:51 PM PST by cowboyusa
So is the hit as the TRUE cause, that is speculation also. But since it HAS NEVER HAPPENED before, in many other sports as well, Occam’s razor absolutely applies here. The Vax cannot be ruled out...
Did all the other young healthy athletes in other sports take hits? There is a real world pattern here that cannot be ignored... It appears to always happen when adrenaline spikes.
When you see posters claim “it’s the vaxx until proven otherwise” that’s not a sign of high functioning. That’s a sign of intellectual laziness.
And thread after thread of people that have passed away is filled with posters making snide comments about the person who died, and how the vaxx is the cause. And on those occasions when the cause is medically determined to be something else - crickets.
The deaths of people are apparently nothing more than just events to advance a narrative to a small but vocal group of posters. Posters are obviously free to post their viewpoints. They’re just apt to be called on those viewpoints depending on the topic.
Re: 121 - these sorts of events have happened before.
Never with this recent frequency... And you know it...
“Fatalities in high school and college football players”
-see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23477766/
From the article:
Conclusion: High school and college football have approximately 12 fatalities annually with indirect systemic causes being twice as common as direct blunt trauma. The most common causes are cardiac failure, brain injury, and heat illness. The incidence of fatalities is much higher at the college level for most injuries other than brain injuries, which were only slightly more common at the college level. The risk of SCT [sickle cell trait], heat-related, and cardiac deaths increased during the second decade of the study, indicating these conditions require a greater emphasis on diagnosis, treatment, and prevention.The article seems to suggest that direct hits were not the main cause of young athlete deaths, something else was.
First, I think we can take "heat illness" as a systemic cause off the table from last night's game.
More...
Most indirect events occurred in practice sessions; preseason practices and intense conditioning sessions were vulnerable periods for athletes to develop heat illness or SCT [sickle cell trait] fatalities, respectively. In contrast, most brain fatalities occurred during games.This would suggest late summer or early fall as the high school and college training season where summer heat during practice is a serious issue. To the extent that this taints the applicability of your citation to last night's game is unclear.
And finally, in your citation commotio cordis accounted for only 2.9% of the study population.
-PJ
Re: 126 - I claimed that these types of events have occurred before. That’s it. And provided a link to a study that talks about all types of football related deaths. It’s a data point for review and discussion.
Actually, based on the specifics of the study, I'd say that you claimed that "these other types of events have occurred before," as those school fatalities happened mostly during late-summer practice and were mostly due to heat illness, sickle-cell traits, and brain injuries.
What we saw last night was a different event altogether.
It’s a data point for review and discussion.
Which I did.
-PJ
Re: 128 - Understood. I guess we will see it differently, as I claimed that the type of cardiac arrest that is speculated to have occurred with Hamlin has occurred before. The study is but one data point that discusses that and other types of deaths for high school and college football players.
Good discussion.
And yes, good discussion.
-PJ
The article he cited here was published in 2013...
It DOES NOT apply currently or justify the frequency of the recent sudden deaths in all the other sports.
There would need to be some historical data to compare to the last 2-3 years.
I did agree with Fury that the article does show prior incidents of commotio cordis, no matter how long ago, but that those incidents were rare even in the cited study.
-PJ
I don’t know what caused this young man to go into cardiac arrest. The hit wasn’t any harder then hits he probably took his entire football career. It wasn’t like he got speared in the chest by the helmet of the other player. It wasn’t the type of hit I would expect a player to die from. Hopefully he recovers from this tragic injury.
“There would need to be some historical data to compare to the last 2-3 years.”
You bet... And you can also bet that since that study huge efforts were made the last ten years to reduce those numbers of kids dying. Especially by the “anti-contact sports activists. So I will bet that those numbers have dropped very substantially since up until recently.
But you are not going to find any to compare to, they have been purposely removed and hidden. They do not want anyone to have comparative reference data for the last couple years.
Still does no answer all the folks in other sports and all those who do not even play sports dropping off like flies... One cannot cherry pick one incident to justify or debunk a perspective. The picture needs to be viewed in whole.
And in the whole, the conspiracy theorists are being proven correct by the hour... By a huge margin they have been more right than wrong.
In time, data will be available for the last couple of years. Might take a couple more years, but it’s going to be difficult to disappear that much data. There’s too many researchers that would detect that, seems to me.
If there is anyone left to read it by the time it comes out...
“I agree with you and said so in my initial post.
I did agree with Fury that the article does show prior incidents of commotio cordis, no matter how long ago, but that those incidents were rare even in the cited study.”
I saw it, and why I stepped in to support you... :)
Tell you what. Such nonobjective radical extremist defense of the Vax and Big Pharma is completely illogical at this point now.
The physical evidence against them has now become overwhelming...
At the same time, with all the similar incidents I’ve seen - the player went down and stayed down.
Players are huge and strong. I am surprised there are not many more injuries.
Players are wearing less and less padding, college players look like they just wear shorts now. They really need some thin padding around the back and chest to spread the blows, but players don’t want it because it might slow them down or restrict movement.
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