Posted on 12/18/2022 11:57:29 AM PST by House Atreides
Below is a link to a site with a picture of the new equipment. Following the link is an extract from that site. By the way, for those who may be unfamiliar with defense related public information, there’s an excellent chance that those aren’t real renditions of what it would look like in reality since they would not want to reveal such facts this early — particularly if they want to do actual equipment testing in the Ukrainian front lines.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMKJdaq2iYnRYvplVjCiNJg/community?lb=UgkxJcTF6erS7-GaLnpnw8I4OUKo0bITUWlH
“Russia has created a complex "Borshchevik" for hunting Starlink terminals
In Russia, tests of the Borshchevik mobile complex, designed to detect Starlink terminals, are being completed. It was developed by the private company Sestroretsk Arms Plant. The Borshchevik mobile direction-finding complex can detect the location of Starlink terminals at a distance of up to 10 kilometers with an accuracy of 60 meters. The complex can be installed on a vehicle chassis, which makes it convenient to use on the front line.
Recall that the Starlink satellite Internet system plays an important role in providing communications and control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Failures in its work, as the Western media testified earlier, quickly affect the combat capability of the Ukrainian army."
Hot link to post 1 link.
Yup, that’ll work.
Tee-hee-hee.
Offense/defense, point/ counter-point, battles driving innovation.
Russia doesn’t have squat, they’re just telling us that Starlink is hurting them.
Time for the Ukes to change to Hughes or Wild Blue?
(well good luck with that)
If the detectors really work, (and I have no reason to doubt that that it is fairly easy to do as long as they have line of sight and the dishes are transmitting) I bet 0bama Bin Biden will be the first foreign customer, to find American Patriots in their bunkers who want to be online.
Measure and Counter Measure. It has been that from the beginning of warfare. The Russians might find an answer but Starlink will also find one.
Whole terminal draws 100 watts of power from PoE and the antenna is a phased array that electronically tracks the satellite as it moves across the sky. The system is designed to maximize the RF power to the satellite, not spill it off the side where it could be intercepted by an observer. RF follows the inverse square law, so if you’re close enough to detect a milli- or micro-watt leakage signal you’re also close enough to get your ass shot or blown out of the sky.
Ok, I’m sticking with our Spectrum router/modern combo.
No biggie. A typical evolution from that would be the creation of cheap, fake Starlink signal generators. So go ahead, Russians, spend money on taking out thousands of fakes, that run on “D” cells and cost about $10 a pop.
Likewise, the Ukrainians could set up remote antennas to send and receive the satellite signals. That is even done with wire guided antitank rockets. When they blow up an antenna, switch to Ant2 and you’re only out a few seconds.
It goes on an on. The HARM missile to take out ground radar, etc.
It works both ways. if their Borshchevik Starlink terminal detection radar illuminates to try and find the starlink terminals then it can be detected and targeted itself.
HAH! The joke’s on THEM, as I’m just about to announce my Starlink detector detector!
/sarc
10 kilometers (6.2 miles) is pretty close for an accuracy of 60 meters (200 feet). Not accurate enough for a smart artillery shell...
“ 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) is pretty close for an accuracy of 60 meters (200 feet). Not accurate enough for a smart artillery shell.”
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I agree. It would likely, at best, serve as a “lead” to have other assets (e.g., drones) focused to further narrow down to a more precise location to be actually targeted kinetically. It certainly wouldn’t be a game changer… just an extra tool.
Agreed. Plus, there are obvious countermeasures as others have noted.
I’m quite certain you cannot pull 100 watts over Ethernet IG that is what you meant (obviously might not be)
The fact that they are minimizing rf spill would actually serve to make the locating system more accurate (but it has to be detected in the first place)
I suspect that combined with other techniques this will work fairly well, at least for a bit
Like the old “Spy Vs. Spy” cartoons, but with real bombs.
CC
My understanding is Starlink ground transmitters draw between 100 to 150 watts, more than a pair or light bulbs, less than most house hold appliances. The "Borshchevik" is a passive detector, it receives radiated radio energy. Starlinks are directional, low power, and don't have strong side lobes like radars. There are ways to hide, shield and block excess radiated signals, or just not transmit them in the first place.
The Borshchevick has a stated range of up to 10 km, which will vary under real world conditions. For years Russia has claimed how good its military hardware is, Ukraine has shown much of that is not true. This system is going to have to get close to the front lines, is a high value target, which will makes them "bomb magnets". Russia's ability to protect high value assets is mostly keeping officers in the rear alive.
My reaction is, this is not going to help the Russian army much, it is new, there are only a few of them, Ukraine has countermeasures and a good chance of taking them out.
Your thoughts (that you can share)?
They’ve probably already gotten inquiries from Homeland Security here in the “free” USA.
I know very little about the Starlink system, other than what you have stated:
Starlinks are directional, low power, and don't have strong side lobes
Here's some guesswork:
Starlink satellites are in low earth orbit. The antennae on the Starlink terminals "rotate" to track the satellite.
As the satellite approaches the horizon, the radio signals in both directions could be intercepted by the Borshchevik. Possibly, there is only a 5 or 10 minute window where the Borshchevik actually works.
Here's a deep dive guess:
If the system worked well, Russia would have guarded its existence. Since it is marginal, at best, Russia released the existence in hopes that Ukraine would overreact and limit communications.
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