Posted on 06/09/2022 6:46:06 AM PDT by dynachrome
I talked about terrible things in order to somehow push them to make the decisions that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people need”
So where is the admission of lieing,?
She may have lied because she did not actually know but the history of the Russian Army is one of the troops taking booty wherever they conquer and women have been historically considered legitimate booty with or without the double entendre.
Yet the Ukrainian cheerleaders here on FR will just dismiss this as lies.
Every SINGLE story about Ukraine on both sides is mostly nothing but lies, but they still get people pushing them.
All of them.
Why?
“Why?”
Because the midterm elections have to be won.
Eventually, Russia will win and the Ukrainiacs will lose interest in the propaganda they’ve been eating up since February.(Actually before February, but that’s a longer story)
The reasons Russia will win are simple.
They have the power,geography, and time on their side.
She would not do that. Ukrainians are pure as the driven snow. Ask any member of the worship Soros church or their blood brothers the worship Biden Brigade. The bad guys are the Russians. And according to them the source of the politicians dirty money must be protected. No matter how much Ukrainian or American [except theirs] blood was spilled.
I figure we have already spent close to 100 billion (including cash and arms) and counting. How much more?
“I figure we have already spent close to 100 billion (including cash and arms) and counting. How much more?”
Hopefully, not a whole lot more, but I have my doubts.(In the short term)
Eventually, we’ll “cut bait” and a negotiated settlement will appear.
“I haven’t seen Russian stories comparable to the rape hoax”
Happy to help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucified_boy
This one was quite the doozy. The woman who reported this is from Western Ukraine who married one of the Sparta Batallion nazis (one of the irregular nazi forces that fought on the DPR side... you know, the “goodies”).
Galina Pyshnyak’s partner had direct links to Motorola, a senior figure in the Sparta who boasted that he’d personally executed several POWs at Donetsk Airport. (Russia doesn’t argue with this, it just points out that he wasn’t regular army so his war crime doesn’t count.)
But anyway. Here’s her version of the story, as reported by a pro-Russian site.
https://slavyangrad.org/2014/07/13/slavyansk-refugee-remembers-brutal-execution/
If you read the first paragraph in that article, you’ll get a sense of how the major Russian news sources initially treated it as gospel.
The DPR is the only authority in either Russian or Ukrainian controlled areas of Ukraine that has used a 1941 law to reinstate the death penalty for unlawful combatants. It’s also the only one that actually admits that if the right person makes an accusation, not a single shred of evidence is needed for them to decide that someone can be prosecuted for it. Of course, if a regional administration takes an accusation that serious, that seriously, no media outlet in its right mind would ignore the story.
Two different Russian agencies thought the story was so horrific and so far outside what’s allowed in the course of a war that it needed to be prosecutable, so they bent over backwards looking for more witnesses, a confession, or even some signs that a tank had been dragging bodies around the square.
I’ll give Russian media credit where credit is due. Having discovered there literally was NO evidence to support the story, they all quietly dropped it.
Yes, but the the difference is that rape hoax was a deliberate government lie intended to “shame” countries into giving weapons to Ukraine and to foment political upheaval in Russia. Nevertheless, I was impressed that the Rada, after it discovered the fraud, took decisive action to repudiate what was done. I think we both agree that in wars extravagant claims of all kinds (atrocities, victories, defeats, etc.) have to be viewed with some skepticism until there’s a reasonable evidentiary basis.
The Fox Factor. I also know a super-conservative, big-time gun guy who thinks Zelinsky is a hero and didn’t even want to look at the dancing in heels GIFs I showed him.
They have cemented a world view in place, and seem terrified to allow any part of it to be challenged.
In any war you can expect “positive propaganda” and distortion of facts (if not outright fake news) to promote “the best of us”; inspire unity; and achieve a beneficial result. Unfortunately you get a lot of negative propaganda too.
The most powerful propaganda of either kind bases itself on verifiable truths or assertions that are highly resistent to a complete debunking, and can be consistently repeated. That’s why news outlets on both sides of this conflict try to avoid a thing once it’s been comprehensively discredited or where it becomes necessary to change the message.
For Ukraine, that means the rape story (negative propaganda) is only valuable as a trigger - long term, they need such charges to be backed up with enough evidence to meet a prosecutable standard at the ICC or Hague. Ukraine has no option but to lean on positive propaganda; it is the underdog and it has to demonstrate the “best of us”, to win hearts and minds in the West.
That’s why they had Z giving the hairdryer treatment to some Azov hold-outs to get with the program and adhere to the armistice. And focus on the inexperience and poor condition of Russian troops and their equipment.
And the sentimentality: russian captives being given food, drink, and phones to call their familes. We also saw Ukrainian families getting the train (accompanied by their menfolk) to western cities, safe zones or the Polish borders where the men said tearful goodbyes and went back voluntarily to join up. Eurovision.
And, of course, that’s why there is so much humor. Ukrainian farmers and their tractors, dragging Russian tanks. The “Go F- Yourself” meme. The person who narrowly avoids death as a wheely bin nearby got hit by a rocket. The kitchen with an unexploded missile perched on the worktop. And so on.
For Russia, the early focus was on negative propaganda. Ironically, Russia has only just figured out how counterproductive negative propaganda can be; that’s why their narrative is now shifting toward talking about how Russia can be a powerhouse of innovation and positive influence once it’s restored itself to superpower status.
When the DPR and an eyewitness told them that a 3 year old had been crucified, they jumped at it. After all, they knew the Russian people would be triggered by a story like that. But once the lie had been found out, they realised the danger. Foment a story like that, and you’ll simply get a whole bunch of loonies in the Russian ranks outraged enough to go and do the same to Uke kids. And probably film themselves doing it, because some of them really are that thick. (Chechen fighters in Mariupol Tik-Tokking their lobbing of grenades into basements that were later revealed to have been full of civilians didn’t exactly do Russia any favors).
This is also why the “denazification” message is being reined in by the Kremlin media managers; it had already backfired spectacularly across eastern Europe and wasn’t being helped by Russia’s Z fetish.
Which brainiac thought “let’s dress up like Nazis (even our kids), adopt half of a swastika as our symbol, talk about ethnocentic ultranationalism and Destiny, set up filtration/concentration camps, use tactics similar to Sudtenland / Lebensraum, and start burning books” would be a convincing anti-Nazi brand?
The initial causus belli sold to the Russian people was to eradicate a few thousand active Nazi combatants in the Donbas without starting a war proper. If they’d limited their mission to that and not gone into northern Ukraine and not shelled Lviv and not started playing dress-up with half swastikas, they wouldn’t have baffled their own people.
I think Putin’s realised this propaganda did work at the start, but the more it’s tied in with the great big shopping list of Other Countries To Russify, the harder it’ll be to convince anyone anywhere that Russia isn’t actually in the process of Nazifying itself.
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