Posted on 05/09/2022 8:24:54 AM PDT by max americana
Nice sentiment but please don’t do it with American lives, resources, or money. Leave us out of it.
Are you referring to the Ukrainians or the outsiders attempting to join the fight?
“Ukraine was part of Russian for most of the past century, they share common bonds, culture, history, and many, some areas a majority of their population is Russian.”
Said it before and I’ll say it again. Talk to some actual Russian people from that area, when they are able to talk freely, and you’ll see how retarded your statement is. Most Americans speak English and grew up with a shared culture with the UK - would that mean you’d take the UK’s side if it invaded America in an attempt to reacquire its former colonies?
I have two Ukrainian Russians from Donbass in my house right now. Both fled west, not east. I’ve also helped out with a family from that area, who fled west to Zaporozhye in March. And I’ve worked with people in east Ukraine.
It is abundantly obvious to anyone who’s actually had contact with the NGOs who’re helping the four million or so displaced people from Ukraine, that a good 70% of people from eastern Ukraine are NATIVE RUSSIAN SPEAKERS (many of whom can’t even speak a word of Ukrainian!) that they don’t see what was going on in their home towns as a civil war, more a brawl between two equally nutty groups of weekend hardasses. Wasn’t even worth the effort of moving town, let alone yomping to safety across an entire continent.
Which invites an obvious question: WHY DID THEY NOT FLEE EAST IF THEY LOVED RUSSIA SO MUCH?
Just think it through. What our Ukrainian Russian couple did was spend a long slow month trekking through six countries and sleeping in youth hostels and railway station platforms to get as far away as they could from RUSSIA. If they’d been remotely in favor of the Russian sponsored takeover, they could’ve stayed put and welcomed the army with flowers (they laughed like drains when I asked them if that had been an option - “Only in Putin’s head!”), and if things had gotten too hot with Azov they could’ve driven a short distance miles east into Russia.
The ones I know personally were happy to stay in Donbass until February this year and what they’d been hoping for was devolution NOT a Kremlin takeover (in much the same way that a lot of Welsh people are quite happy to get more autonomy, but don’t want to leave the United Kingdom).
The Russian family that went to Zaporozhye was so *not* scared of Azov that when Russia invaded, a 17 year old daughter and her dad both signed up to the NGU and ended up in a group with a few nazis in it. They got a bit of stick for being Russians, from a couple of those guys, but after complaining to the CO the non-Azov NGU read the riot act to the nazi guys, and arranged for the family to head west. But they’re all still fighting for Ukraine. Nazis and Russians don’t like each other, that’s obvious, but the one thing they both hate more now is Russia.
About 40% of the Donbass civilian conflict-connected deaths in 2020 and 2021 were due to complete misadventure- like stepping on a landmine or getting run over by a yahoo in either separatist or Azov uniform not watching where he was driving. Our Russian guests snigger every time Putin puffers talk about recent genocide in Ukraine - to them it’s as retarded a statement as saying, if a bus crashes and thirty Russians die in the crash, THAT’S GENOCIDE.
Without NATO troops entering the fray, the Ukrainians have no chance of winning. Can’t say I blame them for leaving, I would have done that myself. They are dying for nothing, their country is being destroyed for nothing, what’s the point? Only the US and NATO may benefit from a militarily weakened Russia, the Ukrainian people themselves certainly aren’t benefitting. The only thing keeping large numbers from deserting is the very real threat of being shot as deserters. Why do you think the pro-Ukraine propaganda is pushed to the max, they must keep up the illusion that Ukraine can win this, otherwise more soldiers will give up. Zelensky the puppet may be willing to fight till the last Ukrainian, but the Ukrainian soldiers may start having other ideas.
“Besides, if we were really interested in this, we’d have cut off India and China who are buying Russian oil to fund their war in Ukraine.”
You don’t seem to understand, that’s never going to happen. Even if Europe should officially announce a cut off it will still be receiving Russian gas & oil via a third party (at a much higher price) according to geopolitical analysts. The price of natural gas is already soaring today, and that’s before any drop in Russian supply. This war MUST be wrapped up before next winter, there is NO other choice. That’s why NATO will find an excuse to jump in by summer at the latest, because if they don’t this war will appear to be an incredible failure.
Well, once peace is achieved, send them home. And feel free to send them your money, yourself, your kids, but leave the rest of us out of it. Ukraine is not our concern, not a security risk to us. Europeans can address it if they want, but not involve NATO. Actually, maybe we should end NATO now before folks use it to force us into direct hostilities with Russia. And, by the way, as I’ve asked others supporting Ukraine, what have you done to halt cheap labor from India and cheap products from China, which are both funding Russia? Are you serious enough about addressing Russia to call for ending commerce with these two?
I should add that all those large chemical plants in Germany can only run on a special grade of petroleum distillates that only Russia can produce in sufficient quantities for them to run. These companies have already warned the German leadership that without Russia, it would be uneconomic for them to stay operating. Europe is staring an economic depression in the face next year. So expect our neocons to double down on their stupidity and find a way to involve NATO troops before long. This will most likely turn into another fiasco just like our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where we dumped trillions of dollars without achieving anything. As we head into recession, I wonder how the public in both the US and Europe will feel about continuing this? Once again the neocons and the military/industrial complex have hijack our foreign policy, will we ever wake up?
Not true.
MacArthur was ordered by the President of the United States to evacuate. If had stayed and was captured by Japan, it would have been a disaster for the U.S.
Shortsightedness.
Where the rest of the developed world just trades commodities in a reasonably transparent way, Russia uses coercion, demands secrecy, expects subservience and relies on kickbacks to grease the wheels.
If Russia wins this, it’ll have half the planet fighting for a share of grain, minerals or petrochemicals from Ukraine and Russia at affordable rates. Piss Russia off just a bit and the price goes up or the taps get turned off. Go further, and the deal will be, sack your government and install a Kremlin puppet in the parts of the country Russia wants to control... or else.
The same deal offered to Ukraine and Georgia. Deals that Russia design with the express intention that either they comply and hand over their territory, or don’t and a civil war with “special military operations” follow.
Long term, trade of commodities controlled by Russia and China will be the biggest factor.
America will be dragged into that whether it wants to be or not. It’s a global repositioning. Stay on the sidelines and your next phone might just be hardwired to send useful data to Moscow.
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