This Day In History: The Sinking of the USS Reuben James (DD-245)

navalhistory.org ^ | 10/31/2019 | This Day In History: The Sinking of the USS Reuben James (DD-245)

[Tallguy]

It’s tricky trying to establish what would have happened. But I’d have to agree.

[Rockingham]

The Reuben James was not acting alone but was following orders. FDR's declared policy of neutrality was in conflict with the more fundamental American interest and policy of freedom of the seas and the protection of American commerce and of American ships and crews. When push came to shove, FDR declared that the US Navy would protect them against U-Boat attack.

As in WW I, Nazi Germany deliberately ignored American policy and turned her U-Boats loose because it judged -- incorrectly and foolishly -- that it would win the ensuing conflict. I submit that the arrogance, evil, and rottenness of both German governments cannot be disregarded in weighing the issues of neutrality and freedom of the seas. If not, the entire subject devolves into lawyerly pettifogging that ignores the large moral dimension to pretend that both sides were morally equal.

[jmacusa]

Two weeks earlier on October 17 of that month the U 568 torpedoed the destroyer U.S.S. Kearny(DD 432), killing 11 men and wounding 22 others.

Kearny, NJ is where the ship was built ans was named after the towns most famous local son Union General Phil Kearny.

I was born and raised in the town.

[Buttons12]

Wasn’t the Panay sunk a few years prior to WW2?

[Verginius Rufus]

FDR’s “rattlesnakes of the Atlantic” speech was given on September 11, 1941, so the sinking of the USS Reuben James was not the first trouble we had with the Germans.

[PAR35]

That’s the whole argument about when World War I began. Panay and the Rape of Naking were in 1937. Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1935. Germany took Austria in 1938, and a chunk of Czechoslovakia the same year. Japan defeated the Soviets along the Amur river in 1937.

Some folks say nothing before September 1, 1939 counts, but nothing in Asia changed that day, and the date is certainly Eurocentric.

[dfwgator]

There were a lot of wars in Europe between WWI and WWII. There was the 1920 Polish-Soviet War for example.

[PAR35]

One of the pieces of trivia I found interesting was that when Mussolini tried to ship aircraft to Finnland for the Winter War, the Germans embargoed them on behalf of their Soviet allies.

[RWGinger]

So at that time our convoys stopped at Iceland?

[Tallguy]

I think there was an at-sea rendezvous with the RN under land-based air cover.

[Captain Walker]

The Reuben James was not acting alone but was following orders. FDR's declared policy of neutrality was in conflict with the more fundamental American interest and policy of freedom of the seas and the protection of American commerce and of American ships and crews. When push came to shove, FDR declared that the US Navy would protect them against U-Boat attack.

Then don't look for shelter under the mantle of neutrality; man up and state the obvious: We weren't a neutral party.

I think FDR wanted it both ways (with regard to Germany AND Japan): Escalating tensions while having political cover.

[SamAdams76]

FDR’s “Arsenal of Democracy” speech pretty much was for all intents and purposes a declaration of war on Germany.

I agree, we were committed by that time. What FDR was waiting on was an event that would galvanize the American people and force Congress to declare war to make it official.

If not Pearl Harbor, it would have been something else. There was no way we would not have gotten dragged into it eventually.

[rxh4n1]

Agreed, but it would have to be a very serious attack, not on a single ship. The American people would not have gone to war to save the British Empire or the Soviet Union. All aid short of war was the majority position.

[Captain Walker]

Then don't look for shelter under the mantle of neutrality; man up and state the obvious: We weren't a neutral party.

(I'm speaking here to the government of the US under FDR, and not a fellow FReeper.)