Cardiology Groups Push Back on Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin for COVID-19

+100!!

both drugs are listed as definite causes of torsade de pointes” and increase risks of other arrhythmias and sudden death, the American Heart Association,blah blah blah, said in a joint statement...

Notice these swine don’t give you any numbers. How many deaths from Torsades, etc, were there from HCQ in the last 10 years? 1 or 2?

This is about fda, cdc, job security and academic types preserving their consulting fees. They are trying to get remdesivir across the finish line because there’s a lot more money in it.

This is also more about TDS than COVID

the *REAL* push back is from docs commenting on this article about big-pharma-ad-supported medscape’s continuous jihad against these drugs just because President Trump mentioned these drugs:

Richard Feinman| Other Healthcare Provider
44 minutes ago

There are a lot of people who have found great benefit from strategies that have been the subject of extensive warnings and concerns from health agencies — low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets are a striking example. At least in this case, they rarely confront their critics and exert power by fiat rather than serious scientific discussion. However the current situation plays out it is clear that health agencies have a great credibility problem. Do they care?
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Dr. JOSEPH ILVENTO| Cardiology, Electrophysiology
54 minutes ago

This type of inflammatory hysteria about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin and the risk of Torsades is exactly what we do not need at this time. Please stop reporting irresponsibly. These type of headlines may then be taken up by the mainstream media who don’t have the perspective necessary to interpret this properly.
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NATHAN SPINELLI| Pharmacist
1 hour ago

I get that they are concerned, but this is already known and has been for a long time. It’s not like this just came out of left field. Dealing with QT drugs and potential interactions is a DAILY thing in the pharmacy, and we sometimes make alternative recommendations, depending on the patient. I don’t know why stuff like this keeps being reiterated other than to scare people into maybe not at least trying them, especially in a life or death situation.
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Dante Marciani| Health Business/Administration
1 hour ago

I found amusing that this article mentions that a professional organization raised a red flag about a drug that it is given to millions of people around the world to prevent malaria. The issue is why they did not raise this issue during the many decades that this drug has been used. Are we supposed to believe that people in the US and Europe react differently to the drug in South America, Africa or Asia? However, apparently, the society is not “pushing back,” they are just recommending caution, which must be a given in the practice of medicine. Also, what about the lupus patients that use these drugs routinely? I had the feeling that Medscape is reading well beyond the message intended by the cardiology society.
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Dr. Bruno Fraitag| Gastroenterology
1 hour ago

Unacceptable ! What are the links between these authors and drug companies competing with Sanofi ? (e.g. Gil...)
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Thomas Constance PharmD| Pharmacist
1 hour ago

Seriously?
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Terri Wransky| Registered Nurse (RN)
2 hours ago

Push back vs. give information...I guess you decide.
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Dr. saratchandraprasad panicker-thazhathuveetil| Internal Medicine
4 hours ago

i didone of the largest patient cliical trials in my chamber practice on cisapride in rthe tmt of diabetes gastroparesis ,for almost 10 yrs ,u s reports keptsaying torsade depointes ,,then cisapride was stopped ,it became mosapride ,then itopride ,as yet i am yet to see a pt with long standing diabetic gastrparesis develop torsade de pointes in indian patients in the past 25 yrs of specialist consultancy professorial practice ,nobody is sayingthat doxy cycline 100 mgtwice daily should not beused with hydroxychloroquine twicedaily ,except for the fact that in upper respiratory infection which can progress to an acute pneumonia macrolides that too azithromycin may be particularly effective in reducing period of tmt and preventing progression to a stage where intubation and ventilation would be imperative so taking torsade depointes into consideration the benefit of the doubt is for the patients ,so the moment covid positive patients are diagnosed it becomes imperative to start azithromycin and hydroxychloroaquine immediaely and isolate the patient till he becmes covid negative and pt simply becming asymptomatic is not enough ,kind rgds prof dr t m s prasad medical director s m memorial superspeciality centre sreee bhavan mookambi st germain rd north parur kerala india
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Dr. Guido Belli| Cardiology, Interventional
5 hours ago

I have a hard time justifying all these comments (by the way, I am an Italian doctor recovering after just barely avoiding intubation a couple of weeks ago, still not quite myself but hopefully getting better ...). The disease has got so much intrinsic variability in terms of severity, length, time to recovery (some people turn around in 2-3 days, others just never make it) that except for what we are learning regarding DVT/PE prevention, we will never know if anything really works unless adequate randomized trials (who I believe should also be stratified for severity at enrollment, so very difficult to implement ...) will ever give us any answers. Everything else has really no scientific value, it is understandably done out of desperation but again the variability of the clinical expression and course are so amazing that I certainly would remind everyone to “first do no harm” as far as many drugs are concerned. We will all see ...
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Dr. CHRIS SOSSOU| Internal Medicine
7 hours ago

The article title is misleading. AHA is not against HCQ. AHA recommends caution.
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Dr. Wayne Kaesemeyer MD| Cardiology, General
8 hours ago

Regarding QTc prolongation, maybe another antiobitic to replace azithromicin? I can think of at least 3 that would not act synergistically with HCQ on QTc while giving comparable broad spectrum coveraage. It would be interesting to know how azithromicin got chosen in the first place?
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Dr. Lee Wolfer| Orthopaedic Surgery
4 hours ago

To avoid QT prolongation pre treat with magnesium. Shoot for high normal blood levels. Magnesium should be routinely checked on a chem panel. ERs should include a QT NOT JUST PR. especially if you are the paramedic , grab the study in a sit or stand position .

For use of magnesium — see a woman with eclampsia. Look at critical care literature and use of IV mag.

Also make sure patient’s QTc is adjusted for heart rate. 440 is a borderline result to be concerned about. But this EKG is not a “stress EKG”— its semi reclined with legs up. tech will only do this if you order them to. Get a standing EKG. Lean them against the wall if you have to— need to evaluate the effect of cardiac and volume parameters in most stressed position— this will bring out changes in heart rate, fluid dynamics, filling pressures, wall tension etc. cardiac out put, MAP, RPP etc. put a swan ganz in and do a stress echo if you really want to see the difference!

my recent 4/3/20 EKG 22:5813.

Dx: CP

OPERATOR 200291

The automated report says

1. Sinus rhythm: Normal P axis, V-rate 60-99

2. Probable LAE: P > 50 ms, < -0.1 mV V1

“Borsdeline EKG”

supine HR 84, PR 168, QRSD 102, QT 404, QTc 478.

Axis:

P 63

QRS 77

T 51

Ta da finished right — well no bc after coming home with a negative troponin and being told I had a normal heart I went back to study my EKG.

Let me find my notes and I will write in the QTc for HR!

It was about 640 or higher. I quickly went to the cabinet and dosed up on magnesium !
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Dr. Lee Wolfer| Orthopaedic Surgery
4 hours ago

Which antibiotic would you choose? And how about pre treat with 25-50 mg Benadryl and 40 mg hydrocortisone- or 5 mg pressure
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Dr. Lee Wolfer| Orthopaedic Surgery
4 hours ago

Pardon 5 mg prednisone equals 40 mg cortef

Considered a stress dose if U have addisons
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Claudia Conway| Pharmacist
2 hours ago

@Dr. Wayne Kaesemeyer MD supposedly azithromycin has some antiviral activity... https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/45/2/428 but if bacterial pneumonia is a R/O then there is no reason not to try an antibiotic that would not induce QT interval changes in cardiac patients ( or in ANY patient taking a drug which influences QT interval changes ) Don’t forget to add Zinc. Hydroxychloroquine is an ionophore moving zinc into the cells and zinc inhibits viral replication :) Most seniors and many adults are deficient in zinc.
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NATHAN SPINELLI| Pharmacist
1 hour ago

@Claudia Conway @Dr. Wayne Kaesemeyer MD Zinc and Mag both. Western diet especially is deficient in both.
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Dr. METIN GUNDUZ| Emergency Medicine
12 hours ago

Here we go , sometimes I really wonder “baseline QT prolongation by Cardiologist” and potential ` torsade de pointes` ..Hello , sometimes I really wonder those cardiology guys ONLY SEE THE `RHYTHM STRIP OF THE ECG` nothing else whatsoever , these poor patients are in `septic shock with hypoxia `intubated with the ventilator , in other words there are SO MANY critical points to consider in addition to electrolyte imbalance renal failure as well . And most importantly clinically at this situation there is no way to make any differential diagnosis what is really causing the QT prolongation - no one BUT no one can possibly be sure of - . Blaming crucial Antibiotic which is actually killing the secondary participant bacteria and mycoplasma in Covid-19 viral pneumonia .
How on earth any cardiologist can possibly differentiate `What is actually causing the QT prolongation in this complex clinical picture ?? Lets be realistic -none what so ever - . So it is `nonsense` ...
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Mark Smith| Physician Assistant
14 hours ago

If QTc prolongation is the issue and are so worried about the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin combo with QT issues in COVID19, what about trying hydroxychloroquine and doxycycine. Doxycycline does not cause QT issues and is anti-inflammatory? Just a thought not a treatment guideline.
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Dr. Lee Wolfer| Orthopaedic Surgery
4 hours ago

Perfect idea!!doxy

Does minocycline have same profile as doxy?
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NATHAN SPINELLI| Pharmacist
1 hour ago

@Dr. Lee Wolfer Minocycline is similar to doxy in its antiinflammatory properties, just a bit different in coverage for bugs. But like doxy, there isn’t QT problems. It has been used in studies for RA and shows benefit at 200mg/day. It seems like trying this, or doxy, wouldn’t be a bad alternative for cardiac patients.
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Michael Bennett| Pharmacist
14 hours ago

Such BS from the likes of Elitist academia. They have no common sense. If I were to get Covid-19 and was very symptomatic and my doctor would not prescribe it, I would fire them and get a doc with some brains and common sense. These groups have a severe case of TDS.
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Claudia Conway| Pharmacist
9 hours ago

@Michael Bennett my thoughts exactly :) kudos
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Dr. Lee Wolfer| Orthopaedic Surgery
4 hours ago

Claudia

What would you choose if you were by the bedside of your dying mom?

Which malaria drug and why?

Which antibiotic and why?

All that can avoid QT prolongation?
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Claudia Conway| Pharmacist
2 hours ago

@Dr. Lee Wolfer It depends what medication was available and not sure locally if we would have access to remsdesivir or leronlimab.. ( being trialed) Alternative to these 2 drugs, would be to consider IV Vitamin C up to 50,000 mg max per day ( unfortunately west. medicine tends to thumb its’ nose at vitamin C therapy) .. all to try to decrease..avert cytokine storm. This would be in the intensive care... setting. I know locally we have access to Hydroxychloroquine.. I would add azithromycin if cardiac condition tolerated..( and not other QT prolonging meds on board- they actually should be dcd while patient in ICU if possible.. many are SSRIs which are not life sustaining) Doxycycline if cardiac patient. I would add zinc 50mg elemental daily to all patients. Also evaluate the lung status..recent thoughts on treatment have considered that intubation and ventilators may be too aggressive, with many patients displaying parameters more closely related to High Altitude Sickness. CPAP machines may be indicated for many vs ventilators... with high altitude illness... certain drugs have been used to facilitate recovering including acetazolamide, nifedipine and other drugs for pulmonary hypertension like Revatio. here is NCBI article for reference.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7096066/ So complicated and involved.. with very scant recommendations from the leaders in infectious disease.. My thoughts...

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Dr. Bryan Chambers| Anesthesiology
9 hours ago

it appears that Medscape has been overrun with activist young journalists with a bad case of TDS. I’d bet they asked a question to this cardiologist to explain Plaquinil side effects and spun the answers to fit the TDS narrative.

It’s not only this article, it’s all over the place. Key data missing from stories, to legitimizing hair brained schemes like opioid vending machines.
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Dr. MICHAEL COOMBES| Cardiology, General
7 hours ago

@Dr. Bryan Chambers Hang on - Medscape is simply reporting on a statement issued by the societies that determine American standards of cardiological practice. What has that to do with TDS?

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Dr. Bryan Chambers| Anesthesiology
5 hours ago

@Dr. MICHAEL COOMBES @Dr. Bryan Chambers My understanding from AHA is to use caution. Not sure what the ACC official line is. Hardly a “push back” though.
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John Pevoto| Health Business/Administration
2 hours ago

@Dr. Bryan Chambers Thank you! I’ve noticed the same for months now.
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Dr. Lee Wolfer| Orthopaedic Surgery
4 hours ago

Michael

Yes and did you see quote from Harvard guy saying it’s not proven not tested.

We don’t have time to develop evidence based guidelines and RCTs.

What drug can you use for mycoplasma?

I have seen recs for hydrochloroquine and doxy?

What about minocycline ?
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JONATHAN ROURKE| Other Healthcare Provider
1 hour ago

@Michael Bennett DTS plus CCP spiced with contempt for individual freedom, liberty and clear thinking.
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Dr. Anthony Sado| Critical Care/Intensive Care
14 hours ago

This article is somewwhat misleading Medscape as well as Medpage ( one of the editors happens to be on Retraction Watch) tend to shape medical viewpoints with political motivation Yes it has the potential to cause prolong QT Does it do it that often No Recommendation monitor QT Can you use hydroxychloroquine Absolutely This is irrevelant article We are always monitoring the QT with many drugs in medicine that has that potential Do risks outweighs the benefits very rarely Is hydroxychloroquine safe Yes it is
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Mark Smith| Physician Assistant
15 hours ago

funny how Dr. Marc Siegal allowed his Dad who is 96 to be put on hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics and he recovered. The treating physician for his father was his dad’s cardiologist. When will common sense be used in a pandemic to prevent death and save life. Tamiflu can cause death due to behavioral disorders and Stevens Johnson syndrome and we are told to hand it out like candy to the whole house hold if one is sick. Give me a break...
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Marc Bratton| Physician Assistant
16 hours ago

Seriously? How many people are dying in the U.S. every day of torsade de pointes ?
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Dawn Rose| Other Healthcare Provider
18 hours ago

There is a study that actually proves Quercetin will control the SARS-CoV-1 virus that caused SARS. .......

https://jvi.asm.org/content/78/20/11334

I used Zinc Acetate 18.75 mg and Quercetin 250mg twice a day, in 24 hours my temperature dropped from 99.9°F to my normal of 97.4°F.

Of course, this is very subjective, but Quercetin is nontoxic compared to Hydroxychlorquine. I was on Hydroxychloroquine for 7 years for arthritis, and 8 years after stopping the Hydroxychloroquine I developed Macular Degeneration, which the Retina specialist said was from the Hydroxychloroquine use years before.

Both Hydroxychloroquine and Quercetin are Zinc Ionophore, so I used Quercetin instead.
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Dr. Lee Wolfer| Orthopaedic Surgery
4 hours ago

Dawn

What were your risk factors for the virus?

And thanks for using the updated name.

Did you treat at home ?
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Dr. Arthur Pomerantz| Surgery, General
18 hours ago

Dr, Oz’s question is more to the point here. Is there an RA or SLE patient in America currently on hydroxychloroquine who has tested positive for Covid 19 infection? The Chinese already know the answer is no. Can you really blame an intensivist in NYC for using it prophylactically?

Art
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Dawn Rose| Other Healthcare Provider
19 hours ago

Hydroxychloroquine is a Zinc Ionophore, it helps transfer Zinc into cells where the Zinc can kill the SARS-CoV-2 Virus.....

On Pubmed, there is a study showing two nutrients which are not toxic act as Zinc Ionophore, Quercetin and EGCG.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25050823/
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Sam Moseley| Other Healthcare Provider
18 hours ago

@Dawn Rose Right, as a zinc ionophore HCQ increases the concentration of intercellular zinc which inhibits viral (SARS -COV-2) RNA replication. I think the author mixed up the effects of HCQ on ACE2 with RAAS modifiers (ARBs and ACEI). In addition, HCQ is an immunosuppressant, (it is effective for Lupus and RA as such) and probably helps in the later stages of COVID 19 to dampen the cytokine storm that some patents experience.Not sure I would want to take it at the beginning of infection for this reason.Guess that’s another reason experts are cautioning against blindly handing it out as a prophylactic to everyone
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j bartlett| Other Healthcare Provider
19 hours ago

It’s not about the Azithromycin. It’s about the zinc Ionophore properties of the chloroquines. That’s what’s interrupting the viral replication.

This has turned political, in typical adolescent American fashion and people are dying. Criminal. This pedantic bickering is going to be the medical community’s darkest humiliation yet.
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Dr. Noel Graham| Pediatrics, General
18 hours ago

@j bartlett It’s being used all over the US and ICU doctors are reporting no benefit. Maybe we will find it works better given early as some other anti-viral medications seem to do, but that will take studies.
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Dr. B I| Internal Medicine
15 hours ago

@Dr. Noel Graham @j bartlett “It’s being used all over the US and ICU doctors are reporting no benefit. “

do you have a citation for that? and why is it that Governors all over the U.S. continue to beg for millions of doses to be sent to their states?
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Claudia Conway| Pharmacist
9 hours ago

@Dr. B I @Dr. Noel Graham @j bartlett I also have heard no data coming from weeks of usage in NYC...etc etc.... I am waiting on the edge of my chair. I know the important thing to figure out at this point is..WHICH drugs are helping most at which stage of the illness.. WHAT to give as prophylaxis, early to mid treatment and treatment in critical care. Patient discharge rates are going up... they are getting better. We need to be given some sort of guidance here... It truly doesn’t matter what the % success rate is.. as long as there is improvement.... as long as we have less people dying. Why is this information not forthcoming.. NOTHING in life is a sure thing!!
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Pamela Bassett- PA-C| Physician Assistant
2 hours ago

@Dr. Noel Graham @j bartlett Sorry, but that statement is not true for us at our hospital. We are using it in our hospital and so far, thankfully, not one of our COVID positive pts have died. I do think the key may be early diagnosis and treatment.
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Dr. Mark Stephan| Radiology
20 hours ago

These are extraordinary times. Never have I seen treatment politicized in this manner. Hydroxychloroquine, Invermectin, Diamox and Zn as well as Vitamin C (and VIT D) may work in some some patients if used carefully. What else do you have other than Ventilators to treat what is analogous to high altitude lung disease. Think! What would you do if it was you......I know what I would ask for!
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Sam Moseley| Other Healthcare Provider
18 hours ago

@Dr. Mark Stephan Yes but it could also harm. HCQ is an immunosuppressant, that’s why it is used in RA and Lupus diseases. It could be counterproductive in the early stages of COVID 19. Seems there are better choices and I would not ask for it.
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Rosario Santiago| Other Healthcare Provider
17 hours ago

@Sam Moseley @Dr. Mark Stephan , what are the better choices ? Aren’t people dying with no known treatment? How about the damage produced to the lungs of some patients with high ventilation? I have taken this mthis medication with no adverse effects and would ask for it . By the way, how many other medications can cause heart rhythm problems?
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Dr. faye teichman| Psychiatry/Mental Health
16 hours ago

CPAP would be the better choice for early treatment to avoid the barotrauma of IMV. I understand the concern about aerosolizing the virus is why it has been withheld, but that would otherwise be a better step than an unproven med with toxicity, except in extremis.
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Elene Gusch| Other Healthcare Provider
16 hours ago

@Dr. Mark Stephan I agree.
Also, in answer to your question “What else do you have other than Ventilators to treat what is analogous to high altitude lung disease”— in China they are having a lot of success with herbal medicine. They already had protocols for SARS and have worked to adapt formulas used then for the current SARS-CoV-2.
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Dr. pat ridgely| Cardiology, Electrophysiology
15 hours ago

@Elene Gusch. do you have references for those protocols and that success in China? Thanks.
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Mark OKAFOR| Pharmacist
20 hours ago

“Numbers needed to harm” matter (and one might argue the rates are minute.) Otherwise,Tylenol under specific circumstances could be fatal. This piece is missing any such NNH info.
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Dr. Noel Graham| Pediatrics, General
19 hours ago

@Mark OKAFOR “Numbers needed to treat” also matters. Sadly, we may not get either with studies involving 6 and 30 and 64 patients being used to guide treatment for potentially billions. When the president is touting this drug as “the biggest game changer in the history of medicine” and suggesting everyone should maybe use it prophylacticly, despite the fact that there are only millions of doses available, good information may never be available.
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Dr. Andrew Johnstone| Family Medicine
18 hours ago

@Dr. Noel Graham @Mark OKAFOR On the other hand, just avoiding it until large-scale, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies are done and conclusive, means either many will die needlessly, or perhaps many will be subject to side-effects needlessly. Judging from the worldwide experience handing Hydroxychloroquine out like candy to missionaries in case of mosquito bites, it is difficult to imagine that more people will die of QT prolongation and Torsade de Pointe, than are dying of CV-19.

Throughout the history of medicine, the biggest advances aren’t always ‘evidence based’.
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Dr. shari gabriel| Orthopaedic Surgery
18 hours ago

Well stated
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"It sounded to me that this was a cardiac group and they were mostly advising caution when prescribing HCG and Zpak for someone with extensive cardiac history. It’s not being critical of the drugs. The press will misrepresent the statement, however"

Agree 100%. The Author went out of his way in the Title of the story to present an outcome that didn't exist in the body of the story. No accident, POS.

Once again, the interpretation of a statement is wildly incorrect.

You assumption that I was referencing cramps is incorrect. I am speaking of long term damage to the intestines and colon.

well then mention ‘long term damage to intestines’- the usual side effects for the drug are ‘stomach cramps’

Where are the numbers for how many people suffer from ‘long term intestinal damage’?

I’m not coming down on you- don’t take it that way- I’m coming down on the msm who claim it is dangerous, and list side effects, but never ever provide the numbers for how many people actually suffer from these things- why? Because hardly any do- and those that start to suffer from them are treated for them to prevent the problems-

The drug is extremely safe- just because the symptom list lists things that MAY happen, doesn’t mean they do- and even if they do- as mentioned, doctors can prescribe other meds to correct the problems easily in most cases-

and what do you mean ‘once again’? I only made one comment about what you wrote?

Just look at the packaging. They are both well known side effects and contra-indicators. No doctor in his right mind would have prescribed this for someone with an active heart condition. They wouldn’t have done that last year or last week. The same with serious intestinal issues.

I think the point of this is to let people with a desire to self medicate to think about it first.

There ARE a lot of medical morons out there.

another point that needs to be made is that the course of treatment for covid is very short compared to long term users of HCQ- so side effects are going to be even more rare than for those on it long term-

The msm hysteria over ‘side effects’ for this drug is asinine really- especially since it’s used for a very short period-

When discussing anything with this group of responders they start to nit pick and become pedantic. It is less a discussion than it is trying to score points.

Your comments minimized very serious, and dangerous side effects—which could lead some moron with a damaged digestive system to take this stuff. And then end up with their colon trolling in the toilet.

You knew what I meant. And yet you intentionally shit on it.

I don’t know what the HCQ crowd’s problem is. The drug is approved and thousands are getting it. So much so, it is difficult for people who need it to get it.

Ancel Keys and Crisco’s best buds.

Don’t get me started.

[[No doctor in his right mind would have prescribed this for someone with an active heart condition]]

Have you heard the two docs that treat lupus patients for decades talk about how safe this drug is? They were on fox- shaking their heads over the silly hoopla over the drug- They were saying that the risk is so small as to not be a concern- at all- they have never seen a death from the drug in decades- and they give it to their patients long term, not short term-

The Hysteria over this drug’s —possible— side effects are totally unwarranted-

It’s a short course- and the ‘well known’ claim I’m not sure where you’re getting that? possible side effects doesn’t = certain side effects- not by a long shot- if there are so many cases that it has become ‘well known’ then where is the evidence? The numbers? I see large numbers of people being saved by the drugs, but no numbers being produced to prove how ‘dangerous’ the side effects are-

[[You knew what I meant. And yet you intentionally shit on it.]]

Wow- Calm down fella- no i didn’t know what you meant- and no i wasn’t intentionally ‘minimizing’ anything- You comment was NOT specific about it causing intestinal damage-

I wasn’t trying to ‘score’ anything- only correct a misconception that the drug is dangerous-

[[very serious, and dangerous side effects]]

Again- where are the numbers for cases of people who suffer from these side effects? ‘possible side effects’ again doesn’t translate to ‘certain side effects’ - many many drugs have way more serious —possible side effects’ yet very few people ever experience them- despite millions of people being on them- The —possible— risk factor doesn’t warrant denying their use-

“Deep State trying to put a halt on the cure.”

No. Legitimate concern, but shouldn't stop use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine - and it isn't. Chloroquine happens to be one of the drugs, among many, that can prolong the QT interval on an ECG. That sets you up for an arrhythmia called Torsades de pointes. It just needs to be monitored (with ECGs) while taking the drug.

“But you should always trust authority! /s”

Amazingly, friend, a lot of Freepers seem very happy to swallow hook, line and sinker anything a government employed PhD tells them.

Go look up the studies on the drug for God’s sake. It’s a stated contra indication on the drug. Go look it up. I am not going to do your research. I just spend a lot of time looking at drug labels. Most doctors don’t.

And certainly, the non medical population don’t. They just think that stuff will never happen to me. Trump and Rush said it was safe....so they get some...and their heart stops because they are a big fat idiot.

Why don’t you guys trust doctors and their age old testing methods. Do you think they don’t want to make you well?

Take the win.

Where am I being hysterical?

You guys are so worked up over this that you have lost all perspective?

Yes it is safe drug. My daughter was on it before and after her trips to Haii. You realize what side effects and contra indicators are, right?

If you want to take the drug, load up? I don’t care. I am not saying anyone shouldn’t. I am merely saying if your doc says not to take it, o am going to listen to him....not bob434 on the Internet.

If people only knew.

At my physical, my doc said Keto diets are not safe. A year later, 30 lbs lighter and with my blood pressure 40 points lower....I’m glad I listened to some folks on the Internet instead! 40 points lower in blood pressure might be a life or death difference in the months to come.