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Reconsidering Slavery and the Civil War
https://civilwarchat.wordpress.com ^ | September 4, 2019 | Phil Leigh

Posted on 09/09/2019 9:42:11 AM PDT by NKP_Vet

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To: FLT-bird

They had previously fired across the bow of another ship Lincoln sent into their territory to drive it away. ??


101 posted on 09/10/2019 7:07:33 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: Bull Snipe

That’s assuming none of them including those from border states could be flipped. Bad assumption.


102 posted on 09/10/2019 7:29:24 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: Bull Snipe

Star of the West.


103 posted on 09/10/2019 7:29:47 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: FLT-bird

Thanks,
They actually hit Star of the West with one of the rounds fired at her. She was unarmed.
It would have made no difference if warships accompanied Lincoln’s chartered supply ship or not. Davis was not going to allow Sumter to be resupplied under any circumstance.


104 posted on 09/10/2019 7:39:29 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: FLT-bird

had the nine Democrats that abstained from voting on the tariff bill, voted against it, flipping a couple of border states would not have made a difference.


105 posted on 09/10/2019 7:43:34 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: FLT-bird; Bull Snipe
They had previously fired across the bow of another ship Lincoln sent into their territory to drive it away.

That was (as you admit) the Star of the West on January 9, 1861. You realize (of course) that Lincoln wasn't inaugurated until March 4th of 1861?

106 posted on 09/10/2019 7:45:13 AM PDT by rockrr ( Everything is different now...)
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To: Bull Snipe

No country is going to allow another to invade its territory without firing a shot in Defense.


107 posted on 09/10/2019 7:49:54 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: Bull Snipe

You’re reaching. The Democrats who did not vote against it were Northern Democrats. It was going to be a windfall for their region at the South’s expense. They weren’t going to vote against it.


108 posted on 09/10/2019 7:51:31 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: rockrr

Yes. South Carolina made it clear they were not going to consent to have their territory invaded without firing a shot in defense. No country would.


109 posted on 09/10/2019 7:53:06 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: FLT-bird

But it wasn’t in defense - it was a belligerent offensive provocation. In the same way, the United States couldn’t and wouldn’t stand for anyone assaulting their territory.

No true American could ever condone being fired upon without reprisal.


110 posted on 09/10/2019 7:57:49 AM PDT by rockrr ( Everything is different now...)
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To: FLT-bird

Davis willingly fired that shot


111 posted on 09/10/2019 8:02:55 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: FLT-bird

You are guessing. It was not all “Northern Democrats” that abstained. The abstaining senators: 5 Southern Democrats, 3 Northern Democrats, 1 California Democrat, 2 Republicans and 1 Unionist from MD.


112 posted on 09/10/2019 8:09:56 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: FLT-bird

Sent on that mission by the Buchanan Administration


113 posted on 09/10/2019 8:14:19 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: rockrr

But it was in defense. They were on their own territory not somebody else’s territory.


114 posted on 09/10/2019 8:16:25 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: Bull Snipe

The aggressor is one who invades the territory of another, not one who fires to drive an invader away.


115 posted on 09/10/2019 8:17:31 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: Bull Snipe

It was sufficiently clear to enough people that it was going to pass. Editorials in the newspapers of the two largest ports in the CSA as well as statements from several leading politicians all show they took its passage as inevitable.


116 posted on 09/10/2019 8:19:14 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: Bull Snipe

Yes Buchanan sent it - and South Carolina made it clear they did not consent to being invaded and would defend their territory.


117 posted on 09/10/2019 8:20:13 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: FLT-bird

Davis still fired the first shot.


118 posted on 09/10/2019 8:20:16 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: FLT-bird
They were on their own territory not somebody else’s territory.

That was open for debate.

119 posted on 09/10/2019 8:21:07 AM PDT by rockrr ( Everything is different now...)
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To: Bull Snipe

Lincoln still invaded their territory. No invasion, no shot to repel it.


120 posted on 09/10/2019 8:21:10 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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