HELL. Is it real? What does the Bible really say?

Sermon Index ^ | David Wilkerson

[cuban leaf]

The Son of God was right before us and we killed Him. That says it all.

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It says that people believed “eternal conscious torment” existed and chose it?

[cuban leaf]

AT it's core, this suggests the problem

[cuban leaf]

And another fun one:

[GBA]

And what if you don’t care? What happens then?

What if you know who Jesus is and it doesn’t move you to act on that belief while your body lives?

What about those who cast our demons in Jesus’ name, yet He doesn’t know them?

What about Thomas who saw it all but didn’t believe until he saw the holes, if he believed then...?

Or what about poor ol’ Judas who saw it all and sold Him out for some silver?

I don’t know... I just read and think and wonder about all that is written, as well as the things that haven’t been recorded in the Scriptures we have so far...

[ShadowAce]

And what if you don’t care? What happens then?

God still loves you. What you feel about that does not affect how God feels about you.

[HarleyD]

One dies. One doesn’t. None are worthy, but believers are spared. It’s a grace thing.

There is not much "judgment" in your understanding.

[cuban leaf]

There is not much “judgment” in your understanding.

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One may argue that there is too much “judgement” in many people’s ministry. The gospel and Acts, as well as the epistles, are pretty clear. So’s the Old Testament, come to think of it.

The wages of sin is death. Sin is missing the mark. Wages are something you earn. It started with Adam eating the fruit, and the warning has been the same ever since then. The lot of man, as described in Ecclesiastes is to eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of your labor, and then your spirit returns to the Lord, from whom it came.

But Christ offers a better way. And his message is, indeed, good news!

[HarleyD]

This isn’t the gospel message at all. It is the typical distorted version of the gospel by the world.

God loves us. God wants us to be with Him. God paid our penalty. God desires for us to spend eternity in pure joy. God wants the very best for us.

Man kills the prophets. Man kills the Son. Man rejects wanting to be with God. Man loves sin more than they love God. Man loves the darkness more than they love the light.

It is God seeking to have fellowship with man. Man does not seek after the things of God. God is perfect reasonable to cast man into Hell simply because man doesn’t want to be with God.

However you want to interpret the story of the rich man and Lazarus, the interesting thing about that story is that the rich man NEVER asks to be taken out of Hell. Whether you want to compare it to Israel or whatever the interesting fact is that the rich man does not want to be with God. He simply wants a drop of cool water to quench his thrist. THAT is the nature of man. God, in the end, will give man exactly what he wants.

[metmom]

The apostle Paul taught “to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” (2 Corinthians 5:8)

He was writing to and about believers in Jesus Christ, those who have been born again.

Not all people.

Without a place of eternal torment that results from rejecting God, there's no point in warning people of it and the need to be saved.

The threat of non-existence when a person dies is no threat at all to people who hate God.

[cuban leaf]

This isn’t the gospel message at all. It is the typical distorted version of the gospel by the world.

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I disagree.

[cuban leaf]

God loves us. God wants us to be with Him. God paid our penalty. God desires for us to spend eternity in pure joy. God wants the very best for us.

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I agree.

[cuban leaf]

Man kills the prophets. Man kills the Son. Man rejects wanting to be with God. Man loves sin more than they love God. Man loves the darkness more than they love the light.

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Some men do. they will not spend eternity with Him.

[cuban leaf]

It is God seeking to have fellowship with man. Man does not seek after the things of God.

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I know a lot of men who seek to have fellowship with God. They are called, and they answer the call.

[cuban leaf]

God is perfect reasonable to cast man into Hell simply because man doesn’t want to be with God.

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That one is a hard one to address for me because I don’t see Hell in the bible. I see several things people call “hell” and what the word means depends on the person saying it. If I just focus on Jesus’ use of the word “gehenna”, which many bibles translate as “hell”, yes, I think he is reasonable to destroy those who refuse to believe.

To send them into eternal torment? No, not really. I’m supposed to be working to a better understanding of the mind of God. The compassion I’ve learned is relatively ok with the lost being erased from existence, but not eternal torture. Fortunately, the bible doesn’t support eternal torture, so I’m good.

[ShadowAce]

While God loves you no matter what, it is your response that determines where you end up. His Love respects your choices in this life. If you decide you want nothing to do with Him, then you will have nothing to do with Him—however, that does result in being sent to a place where He is not present—Hell.

[cuban leaf]

However you want to interpret the story of the rich man and Lazarus, the interesting thing about that story is that the rich man NEVER asks to be taken out of Hell. Whether you want to compare it to Israel or whatever the interesting fact is that the rich man does not want to be with God. He simply wants a drop of cool water to quench his thrist. THAT is the nature of man. God, in the end, will give man exactly what he wants.

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It’s not about what I want. It’s about what the scripture says. Did you notice the Rich Man also didn’t ask to be sent back? Are you suggesting that he also did not want to be sent back? Rather, the point is that he knew he was stuck.

Also, it is a parable. It is the last of a string of parables of Jesus. Its message must be taken into context. Who was he talking to? What was his message to them? What was their response? Does the “heaven and hell” in the parable actually match any first or second temple period teaching about the fate of the dead?

Here is a very good study on it:
https://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html

[ShadowAce]

Also, it is a parable. It is the last of a string of parables of Jesus.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. It *is* the ONLY story Jesus told that used names, departing from His usualy parable style. A lot of people take that to mean the event actually happened.

[MayflowerMadam]

Great post. Exactly right.

[cuban leaf]

It used a name. And, “coincidentally”, it is the same name of a person who he really DID bring back to life.

And add to that the meaning of the name “lazarus”, it is possible that it was not originally intended to be a name at all, but rather what the name means, “God has helped”.

[rollo tomasi]

Every knee will bow to Christ including those who “die” and not found the “Book”. Hence there is a second death; the Bible states (Consistently throughout) that there is a consciousness involved with believers and unbelievers after they die.

As to eternal torment after the second judgment (Post entropy), not really because the energy/soul is completely destroyed, however, the one being destroyed does indeed stand before Christ.

Some rise to live and some rise to be condemned.

As to the mind of God from what standard are you trying to figure out? Man has a limited mind, how to you expect to understand an omnipotent Being? Men who passed down Scripture were limited as well. We all have rationality to comprehend basic stuff on a basic level like justice and love (Agape, eros, lesser degree philia). Also some idea of our purpose, to love God while expressing love to Him and other human beings.

God demands perfection though and that only comes through Christ's sacrifice. Why? Because God is perfect in His judgment just like He is perfect in His love. In short, people will consciously be condemned and they will know why they are being condemned. To deny this is denying the flow of scripture. Eternal suffering is another story though, my belief again is that the individual is completely destroyed (Soul and conscious) forever.