Nissan proposes ethanol for future fuel cell cars, to avoid hydrogen fueling

Motor Authority ^ | June 15, 2016 | John Voelcker

[jjotto]

Interesting concept. Three or four years away isn't far in auto development.

[libstripper]

So they take a fuel that, due to its low carbon content,
isn’t as powerful as gasoline, reduce that carbon content to zero, and expect to get any vaguely reasonable mileage out of it???

[VTenigma]

Not enough feedstock in the world, make it methanol now we can talk.

[exDemMom]

I really don't get it. Where does the energy to break the C-H bonds come from? If it comes from burning the ethanol, then how much energy is lost to strip the hydrogen from the remaining EtOH? And what are the chemical reactions here?

H₃C-CH₂OH -> ???

[Original Lurker]

Pfft!

Crude is a gift from the Almighty.
Just over half goes to make gasoline.

Crude is used to make everything from highways to surgical plastics to fertilizers.

Pfft!

[alloysteel]

Make the fuel stock methane, then we have a viable concept.

Methane exists as a distinct and relatively pure compound in many places and from many sources, and while one molecule of carbon dioxide is produced for each two molecules of water, the production of carbon dioxide in and of itself is not a bad thing. In fact, that is an essential part of life.

But there is a HUGE reeducation program that must be introduced to reverse this flow of misinformation and downright lying. Then, finally, the advance of REAL science may begin anew.

[jjotto]

Slideshow at the link and wiki (direct-ethanol fuel cell) have basic explanations.

[353FMG]

Ethanol is for drinking — not driving.

[VTenigma]

Sounds good.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Rather than pumping hydrogen into the cars at very high pressure, the company proposes to offer a different kind of fuel-cell car — one that is filled with ethanol instead.

That fuel, or an ethanol-and-water blend, is "reformed" to produce a supply of hydrogen on board the car itself.

Yeah, waste energy "reforming" the ethanol into CO2 and H2, because that's better than burning the ethanol into CO2 and H2O. Brilliant!!!

[familyop]

"The company says it doesn't expect to have the technology commercialized until 2020."

Oil demand will probably be crossing production within 6 to 9 months, and it appears that bankers with interests in low energy prices have run out of schemes for the most part. It would probably be wise for many to live much closer to their jobs.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

So they take a fuel that, due to its low carbon content, isn’t as powerful as gasoline, reduce that carbon content to zero, and expect to get any vaguely reasonable mileage out of it???

Fuel cells, not being thermodynamic cycles which must waste a significant fraction of their input heat energy, can approach 100% efficiency of the hydrogen fuel they consume. It is therefore not beyond the realm of reason that a system such as described might have respectable efficiency.

[exDemMom]

Okay, I see what is going on now. The ethanol is basically being used in a battery for a redox reaction. Instead of recharging the battery using an external power source, the ethanol is replaced. So the battery "charging" step takes place remotely, at the point where plants convert CO₂ into sugar using solar energy, and yeast ferments the sugar into EtOH.

This actually is not the same as hydrogen "fuel cell" technology, since it takes an energy input from some artificial source to "break" water into hydrogen and oxygen, in order to get a lesser amount of energy back from burning the hydrogen to reform water. Hydrogen fuel cells do not depend on redox reactions and are not batteries.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Shame they want to add water, I prefer my ethanol neat.

[jjotto]

I doubt many people prefer 190/200 proof alcohol neat, so you’re a rarity.

[roadcat]

Crude is used to make everything from highways to surgical plastics to fertilizers.

Agree. Crude is the most efficient energy source we have available on Earth. I believe more than 6,000 products come from crude oil. And get this, the equipment and machines that manufacture ethanol... use many crude oil products including diesel, gasoline, oil, lubricants, plastics, rubber, paints etc. In other words, without the crude there would be no ethanol manufacturing!

[kosciusko51]

+1

[jjotto]

I would think that FReepers would understand the potential use of an ethanol fuel cell in a SHTF situation. Banking collapses, there’s an EBT zombie apocalypse, no food in grocery stores, but the infrastructure for gasoline is going to be no problem? I think not.

[Toddsterpatriot]

I would think that FReepers would understand the potential use of an ethanol fuel cell in a SHTF situation.

Are we more concerned about SHTF or "carbon neutrality"?

[jjotto]

‘Carbon neutrality’ is modern pagan religion, not science.