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Ted Cruz Channels Paul Ryan: ‘A Lot of Misinformation’ on Obamatrade That ‘You Can Get on the...net’
Breitbart ^ | 11 Jun 2015 | Matthew Boyle

Posted on 06/14/2015 12:28:21 AM PDT by familyop

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To: familyop
Thank you.

"I am only one, but I am one. I can't do everything, but I can do something. The something I ought to do, I can do. And by the grace of God, I will." - Edward Everett Hale

201 posted on 06/14/2015 5:33:24 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: TexasFreeper2009; xzins; Enlightened1; philman_36; Travis McGee; Jim Robinson; Georgia Girl 2
There is nothing unconstitutional about the house and senate voting to voluntarily give the president added powers....

I guess you don't believe that the Constitution is a document designed to place specific limits on the three branches of government, do you?

Where in the constitution does it allow the Congress to give "added powers" the Executive branch? Was this a recent amendment?

give the president added powers to negotiate trade agreements.

The President has all the powers he needs to negotiate "trade agreements" (Treaties) with foreign governments. That is one of the specific enumerated powers given only to the President. Congress does not have any authority to "negotiate" any treaties or "trade agreements". The Senate has exclusive power to either ratify or reject any trade agreement (treaty). The Senate does not have the power or authority to amend any treaty or trade agreement. It must be an up or down vote.

Essentially the President has always had "fast track" authority on treaties. He simply submits them to the Senate and the Senate is then duty bound by the express terms of the Constitution to have a vote on it - up or down - no changes.

TPA is simply an unconstitutional way to delegate powers to the House which it doesn't have and to eliminate the specific requirement that these agreements must have 2/3 of the Senate approval.

Again, you are just trying desperately to use this ridiculous issue to drive a wedge between conservatives the two real conservatives in the race (Cruz and Walker) while time and time again refusing to say who you support.

Right now I am undecided. Walker has one strike against him - his ignorant position on TPA. Cruz has two strikes against him - a 500% increase in H1B visas and his knowing and inexcusable support for TPA.

The first one to strike 3 will probably be the loser in my book. We'll wait and see what strike 3 is. Obviously if Cruz votes for TPP, then he is done in my book. I'm praying he repents and comes back to the Tea Party fold. I'm not holding my breath.

202 posted on 06/14/2015 5:45:08 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: Carry_Okie
"As to the rest of your slander my reply is from Psalm 101:5."

Because you avoided referring to any specific comment, we can assume that you're referring to my comment about any "insulting, dishonest bandwagon" in the reply to you in comment #194. Very interesting: an accusation that I slandered a hypothetical "insulting, dishonest bandwagon" (bandwagon approach being a dishonest tactic in itself).


203 posted on 06/14/2015 5:52:54 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Carry_Okie
"[Expletive] if I know. I haven't selected a candidate to back yet. Constitutionally, Cruz argument is specious for reasons I explained here."

Okay.


204 posted on 06/14/2015 5:56:13 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: P-Marlowe; TexasFreeper2009

The real question is who will be left standing after the Florida primary. There is a lot of weeding out to do. Personally, I wish the candidates would do it themselves, because a lot of them know they’re not winning the presidency.

Without his entire base of conservative support, I think Cruz killed his chances. Time will tell.

My version of pragmatism says that Rubio, Bush, Fiorini, and Walker will be left standing. Bush because of his money, Fiorini because of the female vote, Rubio because of the Hispanic vote, and Walker because of the base.

JMHO.


205 posted on 06/14/2015 6:01:37 PM PDT by xzins (Donate to the Freep-a-Thon or lose your ONLY voice. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: TNMOUTH
Ok, so who is your better option?

Cruz was my first choice but now I'm looking at Jindal.

I guess Cruz’s past matters not to you. Poor baby...you deserve Hillary.

Your head is buried so far up hillary's butt that you're hypoxic.

206 posted on 06/14/2015 6:10:52 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: familyop
Very interesting: an accusation that I slandered a hypothetical "insulting, dishonest bandwagon" (bandwagon approach being a dishonest tactic in itself).

You're going to need a bigger shovel. By directing the comment to me, you were associating me with said "bandwagon" unless specified otherwise. I'm not on anybody's wagon as I have not picked a candidate. Therefore, it was a slander, whether intended or by mistake.

Moreover, my comments were directed to Mr. Cruz' contention that enacting what is in every other respect a treaty by statutory law is constitutionally legitimate. The contention is logically absurd and historically duplicitous given the history of the enforcement of such "agreements" and the manner of their passage. To the latter, we know very well that they were passed by statute because they would never have been ratified as treaties. Thus, to contend this is a legitimate process is both legally and historically false. Given that I know the man to be well educated, I must suspect an ulterior motive. Hence the rhetorical question as to how he could support the process.

207 posted on 06/14/2015 6:11:22 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by government regulation.)
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To: familyop
"[Expletive] if I know.

"Hell" is mentioned 54 times in the Bible. It is therefore neither an expletive nor blasphemous. To declare it unmentionable is therefore to change what it says, which the Bible specifically prohibits.

208 posted on 06/14/2015 6:15:17 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by government regulation.)
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To: Carry_Okie
" You're going to need a bigger shovel. By directing the comment to me, you were associating me with said "bandwagon" unless specified otherwise. I'm not on anybody's wagon as I have not picked a candidate."

The comment was to you, not at you. In light of my comment, your reaction doesn't make sense.

"Therefore, it was a slander, whether intended or by mistake."

That doesn't make sense.


209 posted on 06/14/2015 6:35:21 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Carry_Okie
"[Expletive] if I know."

Well, go ahead then. Get a copy of _Dante's_ Roman _Inferno_, and have a tall one. I'm not stopping you.


210 posted on 06/14/2015 6:40:57 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: familyop
The comment was to you, not at you.

It was not so specified. Therefore I must conclude it was directed at me because it was clearly inclusive in construction. I am on record on this forum defending Cruz. I am also on record taking issue with his policy preferences and his tactics. I could thus have no way to know you are associating me with his supporters or not. It is up to you to make that clear. You did not. I am thus within the set of those who could be on said 'Cruz bandwagon' and can legitimately conclude that you were so associating me.

The comment was to you, not at you.

Apology for your error in ambiguous communication accepted. You have mine for not requesting clarification.

That doesn't make sense.

Please. Are you are accusing me of being unclear? If so, I'd suggest you get a bigger pair of tweezers.

211 posted on 06/14/2015 6:52:21 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by government regulation.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Look up some information on the bandwagon approach. Learn something.


212 posted on 06/14/2015 6:53:38 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Here’s the point that I was making (besides politicians being crooks).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect

It’s a child of the argumentum ad populum fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

[There are better sites and books on the fallacies, but I don’t have time to dig and cite those now.]

I was really being tactful and mild about it. Because if the group is often using insults, false statistics, false analogies, implied threats and political speech with no record or other evidence to base a politician’s words on, then the group’s approach is more like that of a fantasy steamroller that’s going to roll over anyone who questions or disagrees with it (fantasy, or crime, if it happens in any instance).

That’s a sure way to lose an effort in politics. Many political activists may be ignorant enough to believe that most voters will fall for it, but most of the voters aren’t so ignorant. Or maybe many political activists are impulsively evil and simply enjoy insulting readers and listeners. Either way, voters are disgusted or even angered by such approaches and will reject the effort, the group and the politician.

If and when enough voters do fall for such propaganda approaches, we’ll probably see another fascist nation and war. Guaranteed, that a mob of fat and happy bureaucrats who couldn’t make or replace a useful part to save their lives won’t win.


213 posted on 06/14/2015 7:18:00 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: P-Marlowe

“Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and all for the same reason.” —José Maria de Eça de Queiroz


214 posted on 06/14/2015 7:20:14 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Carry_Okie

“There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.” —Alexis-Charles-Henri Clérel de Tocqueville


215 posted on 06/14/2015 7:23:15 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: P-Marlowe

Well everyone else running has about a million strikes


216 posted on 06/14/2015 7:30:59 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (You can't spell Hillary without using the letters L, I, A, & R)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
Well everyone else running has about a million strikes

It's still early. Sarah Palin could decide to run. She is against both H1B increases and TPA. She has zero strikes. Cruz has 2 and Walker has one.

217 posted on 06/14/2015 7:33:47 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: P-Marlowe
I guess you don't believe that the Constitution is a document designed to place specific limits on the three branches of government, do you?

Respectfully, I think you're taking the wrong tack here.

Lets presume, for the sake of argument, that its absolutely Constitutional for the Congress to delegate all sorts of legislative branch powers to the President.

Heck lets presume, again for the sake of argument, that its absolutely Constitutional for the Congress to delegate all sorts of sovereign national powers to international organizations, committees, etc via trade bills.

The question is, SHOULD a Conservative officeholder actually support the notion that such powers should be delegated via simple majority of both Houses of Congress, instead of being subject to the Senate filibuster (or even the 2/3rds Senate majority required for treaty approval)?

The question is, is a Conservative candidate for the GOP nomination for President being a complete moron for voting in favor of a simple majority. Then when called out on it deciding to double down. THEN when challenged on his doubling down deciding to TRIPLE down on the matter. Pitting many of his ostensible supporters against each other and driving many Conservatives whose votes he needs away?

Particularly when that officeholder/candidate has, on many other issues, repeatedly made the very same argument in favor of the filibuster - even used it to good effect - that he's now criticizing?
218 posted on 06/14/2015 7:38:30 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: philman_36
"Everywhere, in economic as well as in political life, the guiding principle is one of ruthless striving for success at the expense of one's fellow men."

("Albert Einstein, 'Religion and Science: Irreconcilable?' A response to a greeting sent by the Liberal Ministers' Club of New York City. Published in The Christian Register, June, 1948. Also Published in Albert Einstein's Ideas and Opinions pp. 49 - 52").

As accessed from:
"White Haired Einstein:" Science and Religion
Edited by Arnold V. Lesikar,
Professor Emeritus
Dept. of Physics, Astronomy, and Engineering Science,
St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN 56301-4498
[accessed on Jun 14. 2015].

219 posted on 06/14/2015 7:41:37 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Sirius Lee

LOL...yes, my head is buried up Hillary’s behind. Nice retort...very smart of you. LOL.

Supporting a man who is the most Conservative in DC really is supporting the Marxist...man, you must dig common core if that is the way you think.

That being said, I like Jindal a LOT. He is a good man...he ain’t Cruz though, but he is my 2nd


220 posted on 06/14/2015 7:53:04 PM PDT by TNMOUTH
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