Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan Was Imperative

Self | August 9, 2014 | Self

[Retain Mike]

In retirement I am always motivated to study WW II history by the men I grew up around and admired. At about nine my father began taking me out golfing with him on the weekends and most everyone we played with was a veteran. I remember there was a man who used the first golf cart I ever saw, because as a brigade commander in New Guinea he was permanently debilitated by sickness. One fairly good golfer had a weird back swing, because he was crippled while serving with the Big Red One in Sicily. Later I often ended up as a dishwasher at our club. The chef noticed my puzzled look as he limped around the kitchen. He said he got the limp from a wound received when he was with the Rangers at Pointe De Hoc.

There are many other stories I overheard and could relate, but one consistently repeated theme was how their unit or ship was scheduled for the Japan invasion. They always thanked God they didn’t have to become fodder for that killing machine. Therefore I developed and now rework from suggestions I receive and from additional sources this narrative about dropping the atomic bombs. I also break it into four letters I send to papers.

Based of feedback so far this time I need to add a discussion about the increasing fragility our leaders were noting concerning support for continuing the war. The casualties beginning in June 1944 into summer of 1945 were much greater than the experience of this country in the previous two and half years. I remember the story told by one man who was too young to serve, but as an adolescent delivered telegrams part-time for the local Western Union office. He eventually quit, because every day he had to deliver the death notices and people began looking at him as a death angel with some combination of anxiety and hatred.

The partial biography of the sources I used contains a lot of helpful insights and perspectives I didn’t emphasize. The recently published book Hell to Pay by D. M. Giangreco is especially valuable. I was able to find confirmation of so many of my other sources in his book. About 30% of the book is bibliography, appendices, and notes.

[gaijin]

Potsdam required the Soviets to aid in the defeat of Japan after Germany’s fall. It was getting clearer and clearer that had a longer war permitted Stalin to really, really contribute that a very stark division of Japan would be required, much as we saw Europe and Korea carved up.

Dropping the bomb would provide a quick way to keep Uncle Joe’s greedy mitts off of Japan.

The only really “Japanese” land Japan lost was not lost to America, nor to Britain, nor to Holland —they were AND ARE NOW lost to the Soviets, now Russia.

Japan wanted to keep it’s bureaucracy intact, and she knew if the Emperor system were preserved then she’d have that.

The American side knew if they dropped the bomb not only would countless American and Japanese lives be saved but the Soviets could also be cut out of the deal.

[gaijin]

Japan’s overtures to Russia as a peace-deal broker fell on Stalin’s ears because Stalin DID want the type of longer war that would give a big part of Japan, or at least bigger than what he got (two small islands north of Hokkaido).

The Soviets pretended to be seriously considering this measured role of mediation but actually did nothing of the sort.

[tet68]

The only problem we have is that we haven’t used it since.
That may have to change in our war with Islam.

[gaijin]

One good book missing from your bib is “Japan’s Longest Day”; lots and lots has been written about the causes of the war but comparatively little has been written about the causes of the peace:

After the Emperor’s recording in fact there were all kinds of hi-jinks that ensued in the effort to prevent the broadcast of that recording:

There was a full-fledged fire-fight on the grounds of the Imperial Palace (where you can go, sort of, on most days) and they tried to kidnap the Emperor “who was being used and tricked and LIED TO…!!”

These guys were nutty radicals but they had pretty clear political goals.

I believe there were two copies of the recording and being anywhere near the records before the broadcast was…..extremely dangerous, physically.

[untenured]

I second that recommendation. IIRC the book was written by a panel of Japanese who actually interviewed everyone who was still alive who knew what happened after Japan rejected the Potsdam demands. It is riveting and authoritative on what it took to get Japan to surrender, especially in the final days.

[gaijin]

Exactly. It’s not super long, nor super abstract —it’s narrated very well and at most points it’s like you’re there, too, on the ground in Tokyo.

A good deal of it is angry guys driving around like crazy as the broadcast clock counts down, and these guys are trying to either capture and destroy the records, or “rescue” the Emperor.

It’s a good book and not boring at all.

[Fiji Hill]

Although I haven't read it, another book that might belong on that list is Japan's Holy War: The Ideology of Radical Shinto Ultranationalism by Walter A. Skya (Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 2009).

[Retain Mike]

Noted. Thank you.

[Retain Mike]

Japan’s Imperial Conspiracy by David Bergamni spends a good deal of time on the drama you mention. I will get a copy of Japan’s Longest Day though. The boys (34 and 30) are always wondering what to get dad for birthdays and Christmas.

[Retain Mike]

By never mentioning the Soviets my source “Hell to Pay” implies that beyond destroying the Kwantung army in China the Japanese believed there wasn't much the Russians could do, because they had no amphibious navy. I have not found a source that mentioned Japanese concern about what the Russians might do.

The Japanese also knew the Soviet army in East Asia was at the far end of the longest logistic train in all history, and believed the Americans had all they could do to supply their own forces.

However I am with you in believing the Russians would have played a significant roll in main island battles. As the battles became ever more brutal surely Stalin's legions would have been invited to be ground up in battle.

[doorgunner69]

My father was a Corpsman on the front lines saving Marine lives on Okinawa.

He saw close up how the Japanese were fighting. he was always deadly serious when he told me as a kid that I would not have been born if the bombs had not been dropped.

You will not find a Pacific War vet that ever thought the nuclear strikes were inhumane or unnecessary. That is purely an invention of latter day leftists.

[GeronL]

and requiring no one to lose face.

How many did the Hari Kari?

[yellowdoghunter]

My great grandfather, who helped raise me, always told us kids that he would not have come home if they had not dropped the bomb. He was on a Navy warship and watched kamikaze pilots attack other ships. I will pass on that fact to my children, grandchildren, etc...

[Retain Mike]

Several did, but don’t remember who and what positions they held. In general I find reading WW II Japanese history is quite a challenge because of the names.

[Sivad]

My dad served w/ 511PIR 11th Airborne Div. He received a serious
head wound during the liberation of Manila so he was out of the
fighting by the end of Jan ‘45. However, the 11th AB led by the
511 PIR were the very first of the occupying forces in Japan (no,
it was not the Marines). Among the first jobs of the paratroopers
was the confiscation of weapons from the civilian population.
The task proved monumental according to my dad’s army pals
who made it that far.

In ‘02 I had the honor of interviewing Brg General Henry Muller
USA Ret at his home in Monticedo, CA. As a Major in WWII
Muller was G2 for the 11th AB. He was a key planner for the
Los Banos Raid, the most successful rescue operation in US
military history. By the end of the war Muller had been promoted
to asst G2 of the 8th Army. I asked him what had been his
assignment when the war ended. He explained to me that he
was in the process of gathering info to determine the likely
casualty numbers of the 8th Army should the Allies invade
Japan. I then asked him if he recalled the number of 8th Army
casualties his G2 unit predicted. He indicated 90,000 soldiers.
Mind you, that was just among several divisions of many
dozens of divisions that would be utilized in an invasion of
Japan.

[Doc91678]

When the war ended in Europe many outfits were placed in camps named as follows.
Camp Camel
Camp Lucky Strikes
“” Chesterfield
“” Pall Mall
“” Phillip Morris, etc.
These camps were set up to get these veterans of the European ready for the battle in Japan. A few Regiments boarded troops ships. I understand that some troop ships made it through the Panama Canal and riots broke out on several ships. I don’t know how true this is. Have you read or heard anything related?

[Retain Mike]

Thank you.

[Retain Mike]

No, I haven’t. The closest I come is from an unpublished memoir by a Marine Naval artillery spotter on Iwo Jima. He saw one battalion after another get chewed up as they took the island. In this one case he saw a battalion commander walk up and down the line ordering his Marines to charge and they refused. Eventually the Japanese shot him. He didn’t say whether the battalion eventually attacked.

[cpdiii]

You post was well written and accurate. However, it could be easily distilled into two paragraphs as follows:

We obliterated Hiroshima and the Japanese did not surrender. A few days later we obliterated Nagasaki and the Japanese did surrender. The atomic bomb killed many. A conventional invasion of Japan would have killed far more. The Japanese thought we had an ample supply of atomic bombs. We did not. We did have a very amply and robust supply in the technological pipeline and we did have the ability to drop many atomic bombs on Japan in the near future.

The atomic bomb "gave face" to the warlords of Japan when the Emperor demanded of them to surrender. Thus the atomic bomb saved Japan from total annihilation that they would have suffered in a conventional invasion of their homeland.