Posted on 03/04/2014 6:45:37 PM PST by SeekAndFind
As Alamo_Girl has put it on previous occasions, ‘Without Time, events do not occur; without space, things do not exist.’
The Bible tells us Who was there, made simpler in John's Gospel, chapter one. The observer is 'The Word made flesh Who dwelt among us.'
Nachmonides, in his 13th century commentaries on Genesis states that a fair reading of Genesis relates that there are ten dimensions. We exist in three, maybe four of those dimensions (space, time, the one from which Life erupts into the physical universe, and the one where spirit originates).
Yes it is still around. We can see light and structure associated with it, plus, not only is the Universe still expanding, but it's at an ever faster rate.
There is a cold spot in the CMB that could be from another Universe.
Indeed, dear MHGinTN, thank you for remembering!
Or from bifurcation of other dimensions of our initial conditions ...
“Whats up with that?”
Be patient. They’ll work it out, eventually.
“Without time, no change could occur, so whatever pre-existed the big bang would just continue to exist unchanged.”
Well, there could be a “timeline” outside of ours, from which we are a consequence. As an analogy, an author has his own timeline, independent of the one in a book that he wrote. He’s free to read it from the beginning, middle or end as he chooses.
“Well, there could be a timeline outside of ours, from which we are a consequence. As an analogy, an author has his own timeline, independent of the one in a book that he wrote. Hes free to read it from the beginning, middle or end as he chooses.”
Even if this were the case, it wouldn’t invalidate my point. In order for our universe to change from a pre-Big Bang state to a post-Big Bang state, time must have existed in our timeline, not just in an outside one.
“In order for our universe to change from a pre-Big Bang state to a post-Big Bang state, time must have existed in our timeline, not just in an outside one.”
I suppose you’re saying here that “time” exists independently of a timeline started with a big bang. I don’t think Big Bang theory disallows that notion. Also, I don’t think that sort of time need be deterministic, the way we experience ours.
“I suppose youre saying here that time exists independently of a timeline started with a big bang.”
Well, what I’m saying is that change can’t happen without time. If change is happening, then time is happening too. The Big Bang, as proposed, involves a change, so time must have already been in existence in order for such a change to happen.
That’s because the notion of time is wrapped up in the word “change”. I’m not that familiar with Big Bang theory, but I’m comfortable with the notion that there is a moment of time for which there is no “before”. I think the universe demands an explanation but not a cause.
“Thats because the notion of time is wrapped up in the word change. Im not that familiar with Big Bang theory, but Im comfortable with the notion that there is a moment of time for which there is no before. I think the universe demands an explanation but not a cause.”
You can look at time two different ways, but I think that either way you look at it, you will come to the same conclusions.
Option A: Time is just a measurement of change. In this case, when a change occurs, time must pass, because time is essentially an emergent phenomenon of any change, a measurement of how different things are from what we remember them to be.
Option B: Time is a dimension (or part of a dimension), in which motion can occur. However, when moving in the other, non-time dimensions, there is always an element of motion in the time dimension. The only exception is if the motion occurs at the speed of light, but nothing with a resting mass greater than zero can attain that speed. So, for all intents and purposes, as soon as anything substantial changes (moves), it is also moving through time.
Now, there could be some “time before time” in which things operated differently, but the physical laws governing it all would have to be different than what we observe today. If they were different, then how could we speculate at all about conditions beyond that point, since we have no way to observe and experiment to find out what the physical laws were at that time? It would be beyond the purview of science to speak of.
“It would be beyond the purview of science to speak of.”
I agree; that won’t stop people from calling it “science”, though.
Yes, it seems most modern scientists have a problem recognizing any limits on their discipline, or saying the words “we can’t know”.
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