Well... if we take the Wikipedia source that claims that this discovery was first made in 1909, it's been 104 years.
Posted on 05/24/2013 6:35:28 PM PDT by Kevmo
I don’t mind skepticism. What I do mind is hyperskepticism. Such as what is displayed in this thread, where they find themselves forced to defend ever-expanding conspiracy theories, and that 7 scientists can’t read multimeters and thermometers when their reputations are on the line.
LENR is the most disruptive technology in history, if it is true. To be “possibly obsessive” over such a development isn’t misguided.
Sure don’t ... BTW, I like the pixie dust designation ... for the Rossi thingy.
It looks like you won’t be doing us all a favor by answering a simple question.
I’m not getting drawn into this
***Then why did you log onto the thread, other than to spread your ‘sunshine’ and leave? Afraid of a simple question? Perhaps the most significant technical development in history, and you paint its proponent as “possibly obsessive”? What exactly do you contribute?
Treat the gas motor as a black box. How do you test it?
Well, first I would put it in a car and see how far I could drive it.
***Both of us say the same thing, but you avoid the question of energy density. A car that gets 500 miles/gallon, how much more dense is the energy than the car that gets 50miles/gallon? Here, let me spoonfeed you the answer: It is 10X more dense. If you can understand that, why can’t you understand the title of this thread?
There is NO proof "that these 7 scientists are not really 'independent"." NONE. The sole difference between these scientists and some others is that they have not automatically and immediately disowned Rossi's experiments as fraudulent, but have consistently said that, by the facts as they saw them, the phenomenon is real.
That is it, period.
I see statements to the effect that Dr. Levi is a friend of Rossi. NO! Dr. Levi is a friend and associate of Dr. Focardi, which is how he got involved. AFAIK, Levi, at that point in time, didn't even KNOW Rossi. This is not to say that they didn't become friends afterwards. That may well be.
Certainly not the whole scientific community (there are plenty who think it is real, but only those who have investigated what the data show).
But there "is" a subset that most absolutely DO want LENR to "not be available".....high energy physicists....as the biggest source of money in their gravy train is hot fusion research. And unfortunately, that subset is the one that largely has their hands on the "levers of power" in the politics of science. They and their students are high in the heirarchies of the various government funding sources, a power they gained during development of atomic weapons, and which they have retained. If LENR is successful, much of that gravy train gets derailed.
Most of the scientific community simply doesn't know and isn't interested in a "borderline" subject like LENR.
And they most definitely want it to STAY "borderline".
Thank you for both of your informative and non-combative responses.
Well... if we take the Wikipedia source that claims that this discovery was first made in 1909, it's been 104 years.
Well, so far I haven't been able to find any, other than Focardi and Levi, as you mentioned.
The sole difference between these scientists and some others is that they have not automatically and immediately disowned Rossi's experiments as fraudulent,
Actually, didn't one of them say Rossi was fraudulent, but then now is on board ?
but have consistently said that, by the facts as they saw them, the phenomenon is real.
The phenomenon does seem to be real (been going on for 104 years), but it also does not seem to be something that can be commercially marketed on a large scale (at least yet).
That, in particular, is what Rossi keeps promising, and yet fails to produce. Although the experiment is probably not fraudulent, Rossi's promise to 'change the world' and have his devices running Factory floors and Power plants seems to be fraudulent.
Here is a timeline where his promises to 'produce' a device for commercial use are listed, and time after time have turned out to be failed promises.
The burden of proof is on those claiming independence, especially when an experienced and accomplished con-artist is involved.
You've gone from using "luddite" to "skeptopath". Keep it up and watch this thread and others get pulled. Yet again, a cold fusion thread has degraded into endless bickering, with you in the lead. This nonsense does no favors to FR and it's larger membership.
with you in the lead.
***You’re keying up on post #229. Post #10 was much sooner than that, so that’s who’s in the lead, not me. They even used the dreaded term “luddite”, which I have not. You’re saying I’m in the lead when you look at post #229 which is 219 posts after #10?
BOTH sides should be told to stop insulting and sneering. If the admin mod is willing to review just one of these threads and call to attention such behavior throughout the thread (rather than one post at 229), it would be helping FR and its larger membership. Just pick one of the threads, maybe even one that was pulled. Just one thread, and you’re done with it. Show us why one side shouldn’t be allowed to send even very direct personal insults such as “kevmo is a liar”, or scam artist, or stupid, and the other side shouldn’t be using terms like “Luddite” or “skeptopath”.
So I can’t even encourage someone who has distinguished himself as a small-s (genuine) skeptic? I didn’t call that person a skeptopath in post #229, I called OTHERs out for their behavior in contrast to his. I can’t even do that? Is it the position of the admin mods that hyperskepticism does not exist?
The admin mod overlooks the blatant insults towards well-trained scientists throughout this thread, and throughout so many of these LENR threads. Please post your guidelines because I am baffled at the level of one-sidedness. One side gets to insult ‘scientists’ and call them scam artists even though it is an independently verified result. The other side doesn’t get to use any terms.
Let us know what terms are allowed... obviously the other side gets to insult vey qualified scientists all day long (but we can’t say they’re anti-science) while you key up on the other side’s insults.
Sounds like it’s reaching back to obscurity. 99.9% of the population never heard of cold fusion until 1989, so I’ll stick with that date as the best threshold.
Most of the scientific community simply doesn’t know and isn’t interested in a “borderline” subject like LENR.
And they most definitely want it to STAY “borderline”.
***I think a more appropriate viewpoint is that they want to stay out of the fight between hot-fusion and cold-fusion.
That, in particular, is what Rossi keeps promising, and yet fails to produce. Although the experiment is probably not fraudulent, Rossi’s promise to ‘change the world’ and have his devices running Factory floors and Power plants seems to be fraudulent.
***Well, like the Ringling brothers, his claims have been overblown in the past, but not fraudulent. Rossi’s device has been independently verified, so his claims don’t look so overblown any more. He went through a learning curve in terms of what it takes to get a prototype into a production unit (it’s just a bunch of business stuff, and that’s easy, right?) and so it might not seem so farfetched that he sent one or two of these kinds of units to actual, paying customers as he has claimed.
Good afternoon. Hope the Holiday weekend is treating you well.
I have a ‘policy’, and that is that I forget yesterday, and only deal with what is happening today. Seems you are a step ahead of me. I Thank You for that.
I wanted to ask, how much energy do you get out of igniting compressed Hydrogen ?
I wanted to ask, how much energy do you get out of igniting compressed Hydrogen ?
***I don’t know. I imagine it’s on some lookup table somewhere.
A gal. of gasoline has 114,000 btu’s and 10,000 times 114,000 equals (cypher, cyphyr,....) 11,400,000,000. That would be eleven billion four hundred million btu’s. ELEVEN BILLION PLUS.
No questions permitted though since this has been “independently verified”.
IIRC, he was convicted of something other than fraud, and it was overturned.
Rossi’s device has been independently verified, so his claims don’t look so overblown any more.
I think that everyone can see that it was independently verified even though it had to be done 'in situ', so to speak. However, his claims have proven overblown, because he claimed two years ago that these would be in common use in several factories. AFAIK, that is not true.
He went through a learning curve in terms of what it takes to get a prototype into a production unit (it’s just a bunch of business stuff, and that’s easy, right?)
I think that is an apt description.
.... and so it might not seem so farfetched that he sent one or two of these kinds of units to actual, paying customers as he has claimed.
He might. Don't you think they would be bragging about it ? That the investment is something that would be known throughout every office in that company ? Or do you think they were sworn to secrecy ?
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