Posted on 05/04/2013 5:04:29 PM PDT by rickmichaels
Question - I almost never get colds, and the only time I ever had the flu was in my 20’s when I took a flu shot. My Dad always claimed tonsils somehow kept you from getting sick. There’s so few of my generation that DIDN’T have them removed that I don’t really have any comparison. How are you in the colds and flu department?
“They’ll pick the cheaper and easier solution every time—it’s far cheaper to vaccinate than it is to try to provide medical care for every sick person during an epidemic. In an epidemic situation, there might not be enough medical resources—personnel, beds, supplies—to take care of everyone.”
Ok, what was the total medical cost to take care of chickenpox cases in the year 1990. I’ll wait.
What is the total cost of the vaccine for chickenpox. For every single child in the country. Multiple doses. Plus boosters. I’m betting it’s >>>>> more than the medical cost of chickenpox care in 1990.
And recent studies show the chickenpox vaccine is less than 60% effective. Even in 100% vaccinated populations.
I know many kids who had all their chickenpox shots + boosters. And still got chickenpox. My internists kid had all the shots. And has, at the age of 15, had chickenpox THREE times. The last case was pretty severe. He ran fever of 104 with it.
Still have my tonsils. Before I started d3 supplementation along with minerals, a good multi (with k2) and Iodoral I got colds and flu all the time. All. The. Time.
Anecdote only.
I had the shingles when I was about 19 or 20. Now you tell me I can get them again. Dang, I thought I wouldn’t have to go through that again. The shingles suck.
Actually I got colds all the time. I’ve only had something that was probably the flu once. But it was guaranteed I’d get colds 2 or 3 times a winter and even in the summer.
The only exception for summertime colds were summers I got a lot of mid day sun.
I think the whole vaccine agenda is bizarre. They keep pushing more and more shots on us and if one person out of 400 million dies from a disease they think up another shot. Kids from birth on are being subject to huge amounts of shots and if you balk against the program you are put in a "file". BTW my cat died from a vaccine. The vet said it was "unusual" but want me to donate his body to the local college to study.
“The reason that pieces of DNA from the cell lines would be present in the vaccine virus is that the virus forces the cell to make new viruses. All of those new viruses are made of material from the infected cell. This is true of all viruses; if you catch a virus from a total stranger who sneezes near you at a grocery store, you get bits of their DNA and proteins because those are what the viruses are made of. Plus, you would get a whole bunch of other proteins—anything contained in their bodily fluids, in fact.”
Given the medium used in the manufacture of live virus vaccines. And the techniques used to produce them the idea that they don’t contain ‘other’ DNA and microbes is laughable. There’s no way to clean up a ‘live virus’ vaccine medium without also killing your chosen microbe.
For example:
I don’t recall injecting the random boogers I encounter in Kroger. Live virus vaccines are, however, injected. Who knows what’s really in those. Especially now that most of them are either manufactured in China or produced with materials sourced in China.
The only way we can eradicate varicella virus is through aggressive vaccination campaigns (yes, with the attenuated virus). Otherwise, we'll continue to have nearly 100% infection rates just as we have seen throughout history.
Researchers who compared virulence of wild type varicella virus and the attenuated vaccine strain found that "Taken together, our results demonstrate a novel immune-evasion mechanism of virulent VZV that has been lost during the attenuation process leading to the VZV vaccine strain." What that means, in every day language, is that chicken pox virus hides from the immune system, but the vaccine virus cannot hide. That means it is unlikely for the vaccine strain to be able to hide in nerves the way the wild virus does. I could not find any report in PubMed of the attenuated varicella virus being associated with nerves.
FYI, we already have thousands of viruses incorporated into our DNA. They make up a significant part of our DNA; one protein essential for placenta formation is actually a viral protein.
Only about 5% of shingles cases occur in children, and the majority of those are in children who had chickenpox prior to the age of one year.
If you want to quit getting colds, become a service plumber, they never get sick or colds.
Were we separated at birth? Almost never, but when I do, I think I’m going to die.
There are various analyses of the medical and related costs of chickenpox prior to vaccination. According to this article, direct medical costs accounted for about $330 million; indirect costs (such as days of work lost when parents stayed home to care for sick children) accounted for about $1.5 billion. By comparison, the vaccine costs between $75 and $90 per dose. Since these costs are based on 4 million cases per year, this means that the vaccine cost would be between $300 and $360 million per year. Keep in mind that these are not direct comparisons, since I'm comparing costs from previous years with current vaccine prices, unadjusted for inflation. Vaccine policy is set based on analyses that show whether the proposed vaccine schedules result in reduced costs.
And recent studies show the chickenpox vaccine is less than 60% effective. Even in 100% vaccinated populations.
There is no vaccine that is 100% effective in everyone, because of differences in immune systems. However, even at 70% effectiveness, this still represents a significant reduction in disease. In a fully vaccinated population, herd immunity is sufficient to prevent disease in most people who did not respond adequately to the vaccine. Also, even if a vaccine is not 100% effective at stopping the disease, it still decreases the duration and severity of disease (because the immune system is still partially primed against the disease).
I know many kids who had all their chickenpox shots + boosters. And still got chickenpox. My internists kid had all the shots. And has, at the age of 15, had chickenpox THREE times. The last case was pretty severe. He ran fever of 104 with it.
Chickenpox is extremely rare in someone who has already had it. I hate to say it, but if that kid has had multiple bouts of chickenpox, that is highly suggestive of an immune system dysfunction. A kid like him could only be protected if everyone around him is vaccinated, since he is unable to mount an adequate immune response.
Have you ever done cell culture? Do you have any idea of how careful you have to be to prevent contamination of those cultures, and what the effect is if *any* microorganism gets into your culture? Cells must be grown in an absolutely sterile environment, because *any* microbe that gets into the culture will kill the cells. And those microbes can quickly contaminate and kill other flasks of cells in the same incubator. People working with cells constantly decontaminate--they tend to be paranoid about contamination. In pharmaceutical manufacturing plants, where a contamination could cost tens of thousands of dollars (if not more), multiple controls are used to make sure there is no possibility of contaminating cultures. In other words, there are NO microbes in those cell cultures other than the virus being grown for vaccine.
My comment on that deep sequencing blog you linked is, what is the significance? As I mentioned in a previous post, we already have thousands of viruses integrated into our DNA. How do I know that the viral sequences detected in the deep sequences aren't fragments of those integrated viruses that were packaged into the vaccine viruses? Viruses can and do package up random bits of their host nucleic acids.
I don’t recall injecting the random boogers I encounter in Kroger. Live virus vaccines are, however, injected. Who knows what’s really in those. Especially now that most of them are either manufactured in China or produced with materials sourced in China.
When you inhale wild viruses (or rub them into your nose or eyes), those viruses attach to cells, which internalize them. The viruses then take over the function of those cells and force them to make more virus particles. In some cases, the virus inserts itself into chromosomes and become more or less permanent parts of the cell. Your association with any virus that you "catch" is exceeding intimate. If some of those viruses happened to carry chromosomal DNA from the person who gave them to you, you might incorporate some of that person's DNA into your DNA.
On the other hand, an attenuated virus may not be able to attach to cells, even if it is injected into your muscle or under your skin. If it can't attach, it can't enter the cells and therefore does not have the intimate association with you that wild viruses have. But your immune system still sees a virus, and reacts to it; it will be ready in case it ever does see the real virus.
BTW, here is a list of available vaccines and the manufacturers. I don't see any Chinese companies on that list. Every manufacturer listed is either American or European.
Agreed, vaccination is one of the greatest advances in all human history.
Truly our scientific knowledge is a gift from God.
Nobody can ever calculate how many lives have been spared by vaccination alone.
It seems there are people, on the Left and on the Right too, who would like to go “back to nature” and live as we did hundreds of years ago.
I think these people have no sense of history and no idea how “poor, nasty, brutal and short” life was in those days.
Hobbes really summed it up well, and his choice of the word “nasty” is particularly to be admired.
We’ve got some problems in the world today, and many people are still living in a way too nasty way.
But face it, the poorest of the poor in the western world are living lives that would have been envied by the greatest kings and queens of days gone by.
Envy may be too weak a word, they’d be astounded.
Not the least of these advance is that parents no longer have to resign themselves to burying some/many/all of their children.
I suggest a close watching of Monty Python’s “Holy Grail” to get a sense of how things really were in the good old days. And remember to bear in mind that that life style was the norm for EVERYONE for thousands and thousands of years.
Government NEVER chooses the cheaper route. EVER! If you don’t believe me I got a bridge to nowhere to sell you, along with multimillion dollar bike paths and studies on shrimp sex!
And let’s not forget that the Big Gov agency touting these injections wants to eliminate the 2nd amendment: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3013757/posts
I just can’t help but question the validity of any of their claims and suggestions, vaccines, guns, or otherwise.
It's much better to die in agony, right?
Everything that editor-surveyor posts is odd.
You're mixing different functions of government, that have different agendas.
Where health care is concerned, the major motivating force is saving money--it isn't even health. Obamacare is all about reducing the amount of money spent on healthcare. That's why Obamacare has the death panels built in--even though it would be much more costly and profitable to treat every person with cancer, but the Obamacare supporters would rather some bureaucrat decide that such care is too expensive, and deny it. I could mention many examples; the bottom line is that government controlled health care is about keeping the bottom line as low as possible. That's why the government pushes vaccines; that's why every member of the armed forces is vaccinated. The cost of a vaccine is trivial next to the cost of work lost and medical treatment.
Given your previous demonstrated scientific illiteracy, I'm not sure you'll understand if I explain that the major purpose of "basic research"--which covers most of the research deemed as frivolous--is to better understand the human body. The study of fertilization of sea urchin eggs, for example, provides insights into how human eggs are fertilized without any of the ethical baggage that studying the fertilization process in human eggs would entail. Basic biological mechanisms are very similar across all eukaryotic species; ethically, we can do almost anything with a flatworm that we can't do with humans or even vertebrate study subjects. In the biological sciences, it is hard to get funding unless the research has applications to medicine or agriculture.
Given your previous demonstration of liberal beliefs, it is clear why you don’t understand that obamacare is going to cost the government, through our tax dollars, much more than we would have ever guessed. It is in fact intended to crash our economic any government systems. Given your liberal tendencies you will never understand that if true scientific research is needed then the private market will drive that research. Conservatives don’t believe in subsidizing this crap because there is no incentive to finding true results. Stick around FR a little longer and you’ll learn this. If you still insist in Big Gov subsidizing your life go to DU. They like that crap there.
Back when I was a kid, many doctors went in the complete opposite direction, an opposite fad, refusing to remove tonsils in many but the very most severe cases. As a result, I had nearly constant infections, I was sick nearly constantly during my late teen years. I contracted nearly every cold and flu bug that came around, had pneumonia at one point and my throat was so sore and I had difficulty swallowing more days than not that I was a good 20 pounds underweight as I had no appetite and eating was so uncomfortable. And I felt tired all the time and I missed many days of school. It felt like I had two golf balls lodged in my throat and I had very bad breath and you could see white spots on my tonsils, but our family doctor kept insisting that I didn’t need my tonsils removed, he would just prescribe an antibiotic and some codeine to ease the pain and would send me back home with a note excusing me from school for a few more days.
My parents finally, after yet another bout of a severely painful sore throat and difficulty swallowing and a high fever, took me to an ear, nose and throat specialist. He examined me and was appalled. He said he’d never seen tonsils so infected and it was no wonder that I was so sick. He admonished my parents for not getting me to a doctor sooner but when they told him they had, and what our GP had told them and done, he said, “That doctor is an idiot and that he shouldn’t even be practicing medicine and you really need to find another doctor. Do you realize that your daughter could have died from septicemia from this level of infection if left untreated for another week or two?”
He scheduled my surgery for the very next day. Tonsillectomies are not typically emergency surgeries but in my case, it was. And once I got my tonsils out and recovered in a few days, I rarely got sick after that.
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