Got mass? Scientists observe electrons become both heavy and speedy

Phys Org ^ | June 13, 2012 | Phys Org

[Moonman62]

So how can the mass (which is basically energy) increase when you take energy out of the system?

Notice how the article says they behave like they have more mass, not that they actually have more mass.

[Moonman62]

Kevmo said:

If electrons have 3 orders of magnitude more effective mass when they are within a matrix, then they can affect protons. Science is closing in on how the Coulomb barrier is overcome in LENR.

Funny how the article doesn't mention the Coulomb barrier, LENR, cold fusion, or fusion. You'd think they'd want to cover all bases for their Nobel prize.

[Moonman62]

Kevmo posted:

Although Andrea’s Rossi e-Cat is already in the process of commercialization,

Is it really?

[Toddsterpatriot]

They’re making a commercial, to warn against fraud.

[UCANSEE2]

I'm not a physicist.

I'm not either. I hate exercise.

Energy and mass have a pretty direct relationship, right? E=mc2?

So they say. Even though there are 'violations' discovered all the time. 'Pretty direct' is probably about right.

If you cool the electrons, you are taking energy out of the system, right?

Well... maybe it's because cooling deprives the electrons of energy. If the electrons (like everything else on the planet) generate their own 'energy', then freezing them would limit their output. If they don't 'generate' their own 'energy' , where does it come from?

Regardless, we sure use a lot of energy to 'cool the electrons'. Seems like a mass loss on one end, and a mass gain on the other. Maybe that's how they balance the equation.

So how can the mass (which is basically energy) increase when you take energy out of the system?

Rather like saying that if you quit eating, you will get fat, isn't it?

My guess is that when you subject certain matter to extreme cold, it consumes a bunch of energy to produce a layer of fat, which causes it to 'slow down', so that the 'electron' can survive the blizzard. (I'm joking... maybe)

Either that or their observations are faulty. Why, wasn't it just this year that they discovered AN ERROR in the size of the PROTON???? Not that a tiny, tiny, miniscule error like that would make any difference in physics. : )

[UCANSEE2]

Notice how the article says they behave like they have more mass, not that they actually have more mass.

So... they waddle when they walk?

[Kevmo]

How many times does a person have to ask you to stop posting to them?

Please stop posting to me. Please stop stalking me.

“Do not post to me” Free Republic ^ | 8/28/07 | Admin Moderator Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:47:37 PM by Admin Moderator http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1888013/posts

Admin’s note: Trolls, troublemakers, disruptors, forum pests, malcontents, RINOs, liberals, stalkers, et al, would continue posting to (harassing) someone after being asked to stop. Conservative FReepers would not.

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

[Moonman62]

How many times does a person have to ask you to stop posting to them?

You know FR automatically puts in a username into the "reply" field. It's almost impossible to remember to take it out every time.

The lame content of your posts is worth questioning and responding to. I can't help it if you have the sensitivity of a three year old when your name accidentally appears in one of the replies.

[Kevmo]

This is what the admin has to say about guys like you — you’re Trolls, troublemakers, disruptors, forum pests, malcontents, RINOs, liberals, stalkers, et al,

He also says you aint no conservative.

Quit stalking me.

[Moonman62]

I don't care who posts cold fusion nonsense. I will respond to it. It just so happens that it's mostly you and Warthog who post that scam ridden trash.

The only reason you're being a drama queen and claiming I'm stalking you is you'd like to have me banned, so you post that non-conservative junk science unhindered.

[Kevmo]

quit stalking me

I have asked several times

[muawiyah]

Hmm ~

Now we have experimental validation of varying mass within electrons ~ depending on entanglement.

In the real world, as distinct from the "electrons in a vacuum", you really could produce a lot of electrons with mass sufficient to affect protons.

[muawiyah]

moonman62, they're getting wise to your shi'ite. Did you fail to notice the part where they highlighted "electron in a vacuum'?

Then, to put a coda to the whole issue ""It is remarkable to watch electrons moving in a crystal evolve into more massive particles as we cool them down," said Ali Yazdani, a professor of physics at Princeton and head of the team that conducted the study."

EVOLVE INTO MORE MASSIVE PARTICLES?

This guy is the head of the team and he says INTO MORE MASSIVE PARTICLES

He didn't say they were pretending to be more massive, but that they were, in fact, more massive!

This has to do do with quantum physics and the behavior of electrons in a crystal lattice.

Bet you thought it was about breaded chicken bits in a bed of lettuce.

[Kevmo]

There is some interesting theorizing at Vortex over this article.

Basically, real world data is catching up to LENR observations.


http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg66663.html


Re: [Vo]:FYI: Electrons moving in certain solids can behave as if they are a thousand times more massive than free electrons.

Axil Axil
Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:32:37 -0700

“Electrons moving in certain solids can behave as if they are a thousand
times more massive than free electrons…”

Caution…Mass is condensed matter physics is different from mass as it
appears in other physics.



Effective mass of electron



When an electron is moving inside a solid material, the force between other
atoms will affect its movement and it will not be described by Newton's
law. So we introduce the concept of effective mass to describe the movement
of electron in Newton's law. The effective mass can be negative or
different due to circumstances. Generally, in the absence of an electric or
magnetic field, the concept of effective mass does not apply.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics)



Cheers: Axil


On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Eric Walker wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:56 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint
> wrote:
>
> “Electrons moving in certain solids can behave as if they are a thousand
>> times more massive than free electrons…”
>>
>
> In the matter of Widom and Larsen, some fun numbers:
>
> mass proton: 938 MeV
> mass electron: 511 MeV
> mass muon: 105.6 MeV
> (mass proton) / (mass electron): 1836.153
> (mass proton) / (mass muon): 8.88
> (mass proton) / (1000 * mass electron): 1.84
>
> From the Wikipedia article on muon-catalyzed fusion: "If a muon replaces
> one of the electrons in a hydrogen molecule, the nuclei are consequently
> drawn 207 times closer together than in a normal molecule." Maybe you
> don't need neutron formation -- I wonder if one of these heavy neutrons
> from the Nature article could replace an electron in a hydrogen atom and
> remain heavy. Would you then get something along the lines of
> Hydrinos without them being Hydrinos?
>
> Eric
>
>

[Moonman62]

moonman62, they're getting wise to your shi'ite.

Bite me, idiot.

Study up on what "effective mass" means in solid state physics.

[muawiyah]

Just read the article. See what the project leader said.

He's not saying what you said.

[Moonman62]

Listen to Axil from Kevmo's post #34.

Caution…Mass is condensed matter physics is different from mass as it appears in other physics.

[muawiyah]

Yup, sho 'nuff. Read the article.

You have a problem ~ we get a neat article about some newly observed phenomenon, or finally after 30 years of observations somebody figures out what people have been seeing in their experiments, and you want to veer right off the article and have us read something else.

Your boys at Solyndra went down hard you know. Gentile is left. They aren't. So who was running a scam eh?

[Moonman62]

You have a problem ~ we get a neat article about some newly observed phenomenon, or finally after 30 years of observations somebody figures out what people have been seeing in their experiments, and you want to veer right off the article and have us read something else.

As far as non-conventional superconductivity is concerned, not cold fusion.

Yup, sho 'nuff. Read the article.

Why not read the original article, rather than the one geared to the general population?

[muawiyah]

Went right to it in fact.

Since I have to blow these articles up to about 14 pt type to read them, and they may require reformatting so they don't have the choppy line look, it takes time ~ I only do that once.

Another question for you though, what about that project with the Iranians to try a hot fusion project ~ you in on that one?