Posted on 08/03/2011 12:09:57 PM PDT by opus86
Back in the day, sarc tags were not needed. Perhaps the ability of the membership to discern obvious sarc has been lost.
Are you seeing stories involving this? I am not. My impression is that I see more stories where someone shot too soon rather than shot too late.
Guy in Mesa AZ a few weeks back. Traffic altercation. He drew and was walking on the other driver, who opened up on him and killed him. Should have cooled off because his life wasn’t in danger until he brandished.
I recall that story. I would have said it a little differently. What I think you are saying is that he drew too soon rather than he didn't shoot fast enough.
There are a fair number of stories where people shoot too fast, or wait until they are being beat into the ground to draw.
I don't think he should have drawn at all, because from what I read on the story, his life was not in danger. He could have simply driven off, and if the other guy pursued, then he would have had a different story. So yes, he did draw too soon.
I think he failed to appreciate the other guy had the same rights as he, and he could just chew the guy out while holding a gun on him. That's fatal stupid.
We do not disagree on this.
I have read of numerous cases where people show a gun and the assailants run off.
I have also read of cases where someone has a gun, and does not draw it until they are already bloodied and on the ground.
Of course there are plenty of cases where someone shoots, or shoots a warning shot, when they are not justified, and it leads to bad results all around.
We passed a defensive display law in Arizona to allow the gun to be displayed so that the other person knows that you are armed, if you are concerned for your safety.
One of the reasons I live in AZ as well. Real “common sense” gun laws. But...Brewer’s coming up short now that she’s been elected. She snubbed the last couple of important laws. There’s a major street in Tempe I can’t drive on because she vetoed the law that would have permitted carrying in a car on streets within a University campus.
The first handgun I ever puchased at retail was a Sig P239. I regret selling it.
Should have opened fire and followed up with head shots.
Disparity of force. He’s completely justified in eliminating the threats.
Pulling out a gun to detain people is a bad idea, especially when a nut job advances saying “Shoot me, I want to die.” It has happened.
Fortunately in many one on one encounters just presenting a weapon extinguishes a threat, not even necessarily drawing the weapon, but a hand on grip. However, you must be prepared to use it if things go south...it can always be used against you as well.
Do you tell the police you drew your firearm? Hell no.
And in this day and age of corruption, depending on many factors, place, witnesses, etc — whether it’s a firefight or not — I may just disappear and tell authorities zilch.
When did Target start selling Sig Sauers?
Sig Sauer P239 — he’s got 8 rounds + 1 chambered if in 9mm. Enough for 3 goonies?
These modern times we will most likely face multiples.
That’s where modern subcompact high capacity handguns are relevant:
Baby Glocks
Springfield Armory XD subcompact
Beretta PX4 Storm subcompact
Smith and Wesson M&P subcompact
I thought a 239 was a 380 or a 32?
Granted I know mostly about Glocks.
With the threat of active shooter incidents it just doesnt make sense to go out to the mall or into gatherings of innocents carrying anything less than a Glock 26.
I understand your sarcasm now, but perhaps you should have noted your comment with the closing ‘< /s>’ sarcasm tag. Too many of us became alarmed at the unjust (but nonexistent) arrest.
I agree with you completely. If and only if I felt that my life was in danger would I draw my concealed carry weapon and then I would "shoot to live." If for any reason, I expose my concealed carry permit, I should understand that I may go to jail.
The use of deadly force and creating a deadly force confrontation when one doesn't exist is what the owner of the Sig did. When he drew his weapon he should have either fired it or not drawn it. If he drew his weapon without intending to fire it he was wrong. But let's assume for a moment that he is a "wrong headed" kind of guy who intended to draw his weapon but not fire.
What could he have done that might have provided evidence in a court of law that he thought he was in a deadly force situation, where drawing his weapon would be what a prudent man would do? Well, if he thought his life was in danger, a prudent man could draw his weapon with the intent to save his own life. If he said something like I was afraid for my life, he could honestly testify in a court of law or under a polygraph interview that he said he feared for his life and that is why he drew the firearm. If there were witnesses they might confirm what he said and all that would substantiate a calm on his part that his drawing his weapon was what a prudent man would do. I would never do what the Sig owner did, but I was try to say what he probably should have done, if he was going to do the crazy things he did and wanted to minimize his chance of going to jail. I also don't think it is a citizens job to restrain anyone but the most dangerous of fleeing felons and only if you feel you can do so safely (which is highly questionable).
I make it a rule to abide by often and carry 2 guns — this is not a back-up gun concept, it’s 2 guns — Glock 26 almost always one of them... Can always carry it with a 15 round Glock 19 mag for extra grip and oomph, and also versatility that it will take 33 rd happy sticks, and shares same mags as my Kel Tec Sub2K carbine. All of the above subcompacts I listed will take other higher capacity mags as well, except for Smith and Wesson maybe?
These subcompacts can do amazing accuracy and at distance!
Walking, meandering in crowded environments, especially where weapons are forbidden, I carry a blackjack, blade in addition to handgun. It gives you other options. Silence can be golden. I do not trust mace, stun guns, ASP batons, or security whistles.
For a last resort in nonpermissive environments smith and wesson j frame snubbie, appendix inside waist band AIWB. I get self-conscious with Glock 26 because of slight printing inside waist band. Although small of back works well with the way my back arches but comfort level while seated is not optimum.
There are belly band holsters by Pistolwear.com which are great running/jogging yet take time to access, and the Glock with no safety is not optimum for digging your hand inside a tight pouch when pressure is on in stressful situation! I carry a double action (Sig Sauer P228) in that regard. Unless you carry the Glock without a round in the chamber, in which case when the SHTF you have to have both hands free to work the slide. Precious seconds.
There are also holster wraps, band holster (like medical guaze) though I find itchy and uncomfy and less fast access. After researching how much unreliability there is in mouse guns, tiny pocket guns...when super concealment is ideal.. besides the j frame thought of purchasing another j frame or perhaps Bersa Thunder...loaded with +P Buffalo Bore flat nose hard cast rounds. For freedom of movement, quick access, deep concealment (especially in hot weather) in a non-permissive environment with throngs of people, things to think about. Mostly it’s about wearing looser clothes.
Just some rambling thoughts on everyday carry... ;)
Good post. I don’t disagree. Completely.
There is always the prospect that you could draw your weapon with ~intent~ to fire, because you believe your life to be in danger, but at the very last nanosecond before you pull the trigger the perp gives up and drops his weapon or otherwise becomes a non-threat.
I have carried a concealed pistol for about thirty years. In that time I have only had to draw it “in anger” twice. That is, there have only been two times in those years that I’ve felt in danger of my life such that I have had to draw the weapon. I’ve never had to fire my weapon. In both cases the situation was diffused before a shooting situation evolved.
It’s true that you never want to pull a gun just to “brandish” it, and I’ve never done that. In both of the times I’ve pulled my gun I intended to fire. But in both cases I had the situational awareness to realize that the target person suddenly became a non-threat, so I did not fire.
As a newspaper reporter, I tend to collect enemies, and for a time this spring I had an honest-to-God stalker who claimed he was a ninja and even posted videos on youtube trying to prove that to me. I was never for sure, by the way, why this wing nut was angry with him.
Until the WV State Police arrested him for a short time in June, I seemed to go everywhere with a 642 and a Glock 26. My 642 was and continues to be loaded with glasers because I surmised that if I had to shoot him it would likely be up close and Id have to shoot the gun dry. Also, due to an accident, I walk with a cane, and no way I can run away from the goblin. If the dude would decide to attack, my only option was to point it at his blow hole and hope for the best. My Glock 26 is loaded with 11 rounds of 127 gr cor bon DPX with two extra glock 19 mags similarly stoked.
My biggest fear, to be honest, was not him taking me on head on, I decided that if I could get my hand on either of my 2 guns I could shoot the goblin to the ground. No, my worry was my 77-year old dad and my 74 year old mother. I live next door to them and neither can hear well.
Sounds like you are prepared.
I also do the Smith 642/Glock 26 combo for carry sometimes. Heavier would be a full size Glock 20/etc in 10mm. I’ve Winchester Ranger T +p+ 127 grains for 9mm. CorBon Dpx is pricey, but from what I’ve read it’s the most modern and effective cartridge choice.
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