M1 rifle ammo

[mountainlion]

Obama banned the import of some of the M1 Garand rifles I think maybe form Korea. I bought some Greek 30-06 ammo some time ago. I have not shot any of it.

[jboot]

I heard about those rifles. I know that Vietnam also has a large stock of them. The last I heard they were funnelling them to leftist guerillas in the Phillipines.

I waited around for a bit hoping someone would import M1s, but then I gave up, broke down and bought an *unissued* HRA Garand on Gunbroker. I blew my gun budget for about five years, but it is a sweet baby.

[archy]

Nothing over 168 grain and 150 was toyed around with in vintage days.

You must not have read what Phil Sharp, Julian Hatcher and George Nonte had to say about using the 200-grain bullet from the .30-40 Krag in .30-06 loads for the Garand. It worked pretty well in a Springfield or BAR [or the .30-06 Colombian Mauser I was shooting quite a bit in those days] but was a bit hard on Garands. Which was not a big deal up until the 1970s, when the cheerful armourers at Camp Perry would happily direct exchange a bent M1 op rod for a brand-new in-the-wrap one during the national matches. But the parts stocks that allowed that, like those days, are now long gone.

[archy]

That is my concern, although I think a bent op rod is the worst case.

I think Eaker might have a slightly different opinion of "worst case".

Me too.

"I have seen evidence of Korean manufactured .30-06 M2 Ball being fired at both our ranges. The use of this ammunition is not authorized at our ranges. In the State of Texas alone, I have heard of 6 M1 and 1903 rifles that have been wrecked by this ammunition. The headstamps are TK, PS and KA. I would recommend dismantling this ammunition, discarding the brass and using it's components to reload in safe brass. The catastrophic case failure is called a "P" split. The case ruptures through the primer pocket on firing. I have mentioned this problem before but apparently somebody missed the message. There are other lots of military ammunition that are dangerous:

French .30 M2 Ball dated in the 1950's
British Kynoch .30 M2 Ball Headstamped K 60

These lots of ammunition are a potential BOMB. I am enclosing a photo of an M1 rifle wrecked by the Korean ammo and a photo of two Korean .30-06 Ctg cases that split at the primer pocket.

The French ammo has severely damaged a Remington Model 700 and Remington Model 760 in my County in Mississippi.

Some lots of Austrian .30 M2 Ball have soft rims and the use in a semi-auto rifle causes the rims to pull off causing the rifle to malfunction.

There are more and worse stories about problematical ammo- including US M80 ball- fired through 7,62 NATO Garands with unhappy results.

[archy]

Nothing over 168 grain and 150 was toyed around with in vintage days.

[MileHi]

So this was the cause of Eakers rifle kay-boom? I knew of it but was not clear about the cause.

[Eaker]

So this was the cause of Eakers rifle kay-boom? I knew of it but was not clear about the cause.

Absolutely not. It was a brand new SA M1 Garand field serviced by a former Marine using brand new Winchester ammo.

The problem was a manufacturing defect by SA. The weapon was too damaged to visually figure out the actual sequence of events and the weapon was returned to SA so they could figure the problem out and fix it rather than killing some folks.

Smart money would have been to send it to an independent lab so I could have filed a lawsuit but I too was more interested in SA fixing their problem than cashing in. After wards SA would not discuss what caused the catastrophic failure of their product.

[MileHi]

That is what I thought, the cause was not determined. Disconcerting. Was the Winchester ammo for Garands or common commercial ammo?

Also I thought I heard that these late M1s were assembled with parts that SA had until they were used up. Mine had a faulty clip latch that also did not match the finish of the rest of the receiver. I ordered a surplus part and it solved the problem. It also matches the finish.

[archy]

Now if you had a sweet New M1A Springfield you could shoot whatever you want.

Not according to the M1A manual from Springfield Armory:

The M1A is designed and built to specifications to shoot standard factory military 7.62 NATO ammunition. The specifications for standard military ammunition include harder primers to withstand the slight indentation from the firing pin when the bolt chambers a cartridge. This slight indentation is normal. The use of civilian ammunition with more sensitive primers or handloads with commercial primers and/or improperly seated primers increase the risk of primer detonation when the bolt slams forward. This unexpected "slam fire" can occur even if the trigger is not being pulled and if the safety is on. Use of military specification ammunition will help avoid this. Every shooter should use extreme caution when loading this or any other firearm. See page 15 for instructions on proper loading to help avoid a "slam fire". Also see enclosed article on “Slam Fire” written by Wayne Faatz.

Use only recently made high quality, original military or factory-manufactured ammunition of 7.62 caliber. Old ammunition may deteriorate from age causing it to be dangerous. Do not use cartridges that are dirty, wet, corroded, bent or damaged. Do not oil cartridges. Do not spray aerosol-type lubricants, preservatives or cleaners directly onto cartridges or where excess spray may flow into contact with cartridges. Defective ammunition is the primary cause of mishaps and can cause injury or death to you and bystanders.

Lubricant or other foreign matter on cartridges can cause potentially dangerous ammunition malfunctions. Store ammunition in a cool dry place to prevent contamination and deterioration of the primer and powder. Use only ammunition of the caliber for which your firearm is chambered. The proper caliber is permanently engraved on your firearm; never attempt to use ammunition of any other caliber. Defective ammunition can create excessive pressures resulting in an explosion and cause injury or death to you and/or those nearby. You must assume responsibility for using proper and safe ammunition.
,br> Keep ammunition separated by caliber at home and on the range. This can be done by keeping it in the original box. Throw ammunition away that has been dented or deformed, shows signs of wear such as split or cracked necks, cratered or flattened primers, or punctured cases. If you have any reason to question the safety of any cartridge do not use it and safely discard it immediately.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE OLD OR RELOADED AMMUNITION PURCHASED AT GUN SHOWS, ESTATE SALES OR AUCTIONS. WARNING - Springfield Armory M1A user's manual

[archy]

What if one had a quantity of black tips that weren't 'pulls'?

I'd be more likely to load them for a 7.62 NATO or .308 gun, not that they won't work just fine in a Garand. But my Garand really, REALLY likes 168-grain Sierra Match Kings. Even more than my .308 boltguns did.

[Vendome]

Yeah, I’ve heard that.

I bought the M1A on the premise of other people’s experience and even repeated their experiments.

I don’t go funky on the ammo and buy from people I trust. One guy here in San Jose for surplus, Big 5 & Walmart for brand name and Ammo for Less for other surplus.

Good advice though.

(hopefully I won’t lose an eye next week at the range.)

[Vendome]

Yeah that’s Garand Ammo. The recommendations I have seen say best not to go over 168 and 150 should be fine.

I’m 308.

[Vendome]

No I did not read that. Do you have a link?

I am looking to get some extra .30 & .30-06 in refurb Garands.

Thnx.

[archy]

No I did not read that. Do you have a link?

Philip B. Sharpe's in his essay "And the angels sing" IIRC, which I believe appears in his Complete Guide to Handloading; Hatcher in either Hatcher's Notebook or his Book of the Garand relating to the M1's development, which was of course, dependent on it's ability to digest both the massive stocks of .30 M1 ammo left over from WWI and the newer [1926] Ordnance Corps developed .30 M1 Ball cartridge using a 174-grain bullet. George Nonte mentioned reloading of .30-06 with bullets from Krag ammo in one of his reloading books from the 1970s and a couple of articles in Shooting Times, as well as several conversations I had with him prior to his death in 1979; I'd really have to dig to find the particular issues. But 200-grain loads for the Garand were not at all uncommon *back in the days,* but NOT using load data anywhere near those of the bullets in the more usual 150-grain to 173-grain range.

[archy]

Yeah that’s Garand Ammo. The recommendations I have seen say best not to go over 168 and 150 should be fine.

I’m 308.

My Garands are .30-06; my FALs are .308/ 7,62 NATO. This is The Way Things Should Be.

That said, I had some lengthy experience with an 18-inch barrelled *Tanker Garand* in 7,62 a few years back, and it was a both a very decent shooter and a dandy little truck rifle, lacking an external magazine to snag and bump while bringing it into play.

[Vendome]

Interesting.

Thanks.