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Gold Isn't in a Bubble (the real issue is the future of our monetary system and fiat currency)
Minyanville ^ | 12/24/2010 | Jordan Roy-Byrne

Posted on 12/26/2010 3:56:05 PM PST by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 12/26/2010 3:56:11 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Bump


2 posted on 12/26/2010 4:02:38 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: SeekAndFind

Bloomberg is a stooge for the Saudis in his push for the victory mosques. Americans who watch TV and Hollywood’s crap are drooling idiots enabling Obama. They are in for a a real shock when they are coughing up feces for what he has panned to destroy America.


3 posted on 12/26/2010 4:12:15 PM PST by Frantzie (American TV = owned by the Saudis and elites - keep watching & losing your freedom)
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To: SeekAndFind

Read the posted comments after the piece. One person is concerned with the possibility of confiscation a la Roosevelt. A very legitimate concern, IMO.

However, also IMO, a LOT of Americans are not so trusting of the government as in 1930. This time around, I believe a lot of us realize that after gold and silver confiscation, will come guns. IOW, if they come for your gold, you may as well rebel then, ‘cause it will be either serfdom or rebellion afterwards. Take your pick.


4 posted on 12/26/2010 4:31:26 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s ( If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: Frantzie

what was Gold in the 80’s? What is it today? gold may rise and Gold may fall, but it will never be Zero. Speaking of Zero, I expect he will outlaw gold ala FDR. Better get it out of your SD box and hide it under your mattress, along with your fire arms.


5 posted on 12/26/2010 4:43:37 PM PST by barb-tex (What else did you expect from the likes of 0? BTW, What ever happened to Rhodesia?, Oh, yes, Zimbabw)
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To: SeekAndFind

Any assets is NOT in a bubble if the inflation comes soon enough.

Thus had the inflation come soon enough, there would have been no 2005-2007 housing bubble nor a housing market crash. The inflation would have made the housing prices correct. If the inflation comes soon enough, then the current price of gold or maybe even a higher price will be supported.

On the other hand if the Fed continues to hold the line on inflation and the Congress reins in spending, then there may in fact be a decline in the price of gold. Asset values depend on what will be the price of the asset in the future. Inflation causes future asset prices to rise. If the inflation expectations are met, then the asset price stays about the same. If the inflation expectations are surpassed, the asset price rises further. If the inflation expectations are not met, then the asset price will fall and someone is likely to use the pejorative term crash.


6 posted on 12/26/2010 4:45:49 PM PST by JLS (Democrats: People who won't even let you enjoy an unseasonably warm winter day.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

It’s a given that Roosevelt outlawed the gold money and certificates for Americans in the 30s (so did Lenin, Hitler, Mussolini, etc, for their subjects) but, it should be pointed out that was when gold was still very much part and parcel of economic systems and theory.

That was a one time deal, unless one subscribes the theory that the US government plans on returning to a gold monetary standard. Not anytime soon.


7 posted on 12/26/2010 4:54:30 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: SeekAndFind

I think we have been in a fiat currency bubble for the past several decades and the price of gold simply reflects that bubble. The big question is, what happens when/if the fiat currency bubble pops? Nothing good to be sure. One can assume that, should that bubble begin to seriously deflate or even collpase, empires would collapse with it and, since the PTB i.e. governments and banking empires sustained through the fractional reserve lending system, can’t allow that to happen, it seems logical that we can anticipate continued inflation which translates into increasing asset prices i.e. increasing gold prices.


8 posted on 12/26/2010 5:09:57 PM PST by RC one (WHAT!!!!)
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To: All

Isn’t it funny how the author of this piece “knows all” and how everyone else is “incompetent” or “unable to get it”?

Sounds like the author is a bit desperate to convince the reader that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Wonder why?

I don’t ever recall seeing George Soros posting here, and yet this author appears to suggest his knowledge is so vastly superior.

Afterall, if someone is that SUCCESSFUL and is so ABSOLUTELY SURE of their superior investment knowledge, they’d have to be enormously wealthy.

Weather gold (or any asset, commodity, tulip bulbs, etc.) is in a bubble or not, or weather it’s undervalued or overvalued, is for the market to determine, not wanna be soothsayers.

People don’t get in trouble chasing hot investments. They get in trouble chasing hot investments with money they can’t afford to lose.

And often, what makes people chase hot ideas is others telling them how they know “ABSOLUTELY” that the price is going up.

I remember the same hot money advisors when real estate was hot. All the arm chair Donald Trumps speculating with money they didn’t have listening to other wanna be Donald Trumps.

My suggestion is read all angles to any idea, pros and cons, and then make your own personal decision as to which way you want to go. But avoid anyone telling you “they know” what no one else does.


9 posted on 12/26/2010 5:25:29 PM PST by OhhTee5
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To: Freedom4US
That was a one time deal, unless one subscribes the theory that the US government plans on returning to a gold monetary standard. Not anytime soon.

I don't agree that it will be a one time deal. The government is very interested in who is buying bullion. That is not for no reason.

When a nation's government becomes despotic, anything that provides safety and security to its citizens is a threat to that government. The government must control commerce. And that means controlling currency. If gold/silver threaten to become a de facto medium of exchange because of the collapse of fiat currency, then the government has a vested interest in the control of precious metals.

Look, it's all about control. If the people in power believe that confiscation of privately held bullion is in their interest and furthers their control of the populace, they will do it. Doesn't have to be logical to you or me. Only to them.

10 posted on 12/26/2010 5:44:06 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s ( If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

Yes, agreed - it’s about control, no argument there. But it’s precisely because of that, any hint of outright property confiscation is just an admission that they have lost control. Sort of like the Navy commandeering everybodys canoe.

Forget it. The PR would be atrocious. First thing, somebody better shut down the US Mint, because that’s who is selling in large part. No, there would be many unintended consequences to such a move and would sever any trust that is left. Remember in the 1930s there was a far greater
respect for government, and the gold recall was assumed to be a temporary emergency act. So many things have turned out so badly, that is why the Roosevelt action was a one time deal in practical terms. The government obligations to creditors is so large that even foreign central bank gold payments were reneged upon 40 years ago. Even Social Security trust fund was absconded with into the general fund at that time.

Do the math, and it becomes clear, never mind the rest.


11 posted on 12/26/2010 6:03:30 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: SeekAndFind

If it is something that can be speculated or has speculation involved...it is a bubble.


12 posted on 12/26/2010 6:30:27 PM PST by cranked
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To: Freedom4US
any hint of outright property confiscation is just an admission that they have lost control.

It is also an act that is designed to demonstrate they are asserting control. Arguably much of EPA and federal land regulations are de facto property confiscation. It's simply that much of the people haven't realized that is what it is. And a significant portion of our citizenry is in favor of confiscation. Class warfare is alive, well and still effective.

Nonetheless, there is ample evidence that the government has developed an unhealthy interest in who buys and owns bullion. You and I can argue what the government "intends" to do what that information. But there is no debate what it "can" do with that information, should it choose to do so.

The government's interest in tracking gold and silver purchases is no more benign that its interest in gun purchases. Information is power and they are striving to get as much as possible on each and every one of us.

I'm am becoming convinced that potential unintended consequences is no deterrent to loony fascists. And at crunch time, those in power will probably consider loss of trust to be a worthwhile price to pay for keeping power.

Also, I believe you may be falling into the same logic trap that most of us reasoning people fall into. That is, being rational beings ourselves, we try to ascribe to our adversaries rational thought processes for what is in reality, irrational behavior. You and I aren't interested in controlling every aspect of everyone else's behavior and life. These people are. That's their goal.

If there is a collapse of paper currency, these people may well consider it to their benefit to confiscate gold and silver. And the consequences be damned.

13 posted on 12/26/2010 6:35:29 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s ( If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: SeekAndFind
Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, Lloyd Blankfein, William Dudley, Gary Cohn, Jamie Dimon, Kenneth Chenault, John Mack and others represent a graver threat to our freedoms, to the sovereignty of our nation, and to the viability of our republic than the combined forces of ChiComs, Russians, and Iranians. The fractional reserve lending system

There is a permanent solution that will put an end to the bankers hegemony and control over our government and economy:

The immediate and total abolition of the Federal Reserve system and a return to a legal, transparent and sound monetary policy.

And a cautionary reminder for the Jeffersonian in all of us these days -

"Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations will grow up around them, banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson in the debate over The Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809).

"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

14 posted on 12/26/2010 6:38:58 PM PST by GreatJoeMcCarthy
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To: SeekAndFind

Gold is definitely not in a ‘bubble,’ but that doesn’t mean that it won’t fall sharply at some point after the deflation part of the inevitable sovereign debt crash sets in.

That will affect its dollar exchange value, but probably not its intrinsic value. IOW, it will continue to purchase the same amount of goods, but at a lower dollar price.


15 posted on 12/26/2010 7:06:38 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: cranked

>> “If it is something that can be speculated or has speculation involved...it is a bubble.” <<

.
Gold is not a speculative buy; it bounces too much for that kind of investment; it is a hedge, and nothing more.
.


16 posted on 12/26/2010 7:11:32 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

I agree they are not rational, and anyone who has been paying attention knows what they are up to. I suppose they can try, but if “paper money collapses” as you describe it, then by definition they (and everyone else) will have far greater things to worry about.

They may not be rational, but they aren’t complete idiots either. At this point, it’s obvious to even the feeble minded that certain types of politician are determined to crash what’s left of the system, and are no longer representatives of their alleged constituencies. This has been going on for a long time, except that, while you correctly point out the politicians don’t care, the difference today compared with the 1930s is the citizenry doesn’t either.

They can’t effect their nonsense without money, and lots of it. Gold isn’t the answer, it’s part of the question. Whether or not the government confiscates my land, my home, means of self-defense, freedom of religion, peaceable assembly - there I go again, getting all radical!

What about my savings bonds? My 401k? Do they want to criminalize those too? At some point we just gotta dust ourselves off and start over, so in some ways this kind of talk is very welcome.


17 posted on 12/26/2010 7:26:26 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US

I suppose we could boil it down to a simple, but unanswerable question. I honestly believe they are capable of trying anything they think they can get away with. So the question is, just what do they think they can get away with?

It is (more or less) openly admitted they want to “nationalize” your 401K. Which is confiscation. Do they think they can get away with it? Mmmm, they aren’t yet sure, still waiting for the right circumstances to fall into place.

And while we speculate, we really have no true idea of how bad a worst case scenario could actually be, should it come to that.

This I am certain of, in a severe depression, we can expect a lot more lawlessness on the part of citizens (and don’t forget the 15-20 million illegals). We do not have the morals and values of 1930 that can be counted upon to maintain civilized behavior to the degree of that time. And a lot of us do not have the naive faith and trust in government that our grandparents had at that time. I for one don’t intend to rely on any government institution to protect my family or property.


18 posted on 12/26/2010 8:35:09 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s ( If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

I think we’re on the same page. Many things the government does (and esp. doesn’t do) makes no sense unless one is willing to accept some very difficult conclusions.

My view is that the rule of law, sanctity of contracts, human rights of property, self-defenses, etc - these are what count. The loss of an objective standard of money replaced by whatever is just one aspect of a continual erosion of the republic, none of this was haphazard or built out of expediency but by conscious design and malice aforethought. It is ironic that the US fought a horrible war to end slavery, and while it may sound like hyperbole, it seems the inescapable conclusion is that we are headed that way again, it’s just so obvious. I am at least encouraged that there are many such as yourself that are aware of this, albeit it wasn’t really that long ago I was still laboring under the illusion things would work out OK, but generally speaking the level of awareness is much greater than just a few years ago. Don’t get me wrong I love our country but there are major problems (that were foisted on everyone for exactly the reasons outlined) and there is no ignoring them. In fact they will be used as intended, to extract the desired outcome. People will be begging for the government to “do something” - and, well you know the rest. God speed.


19 posted on 12/26/2010 9:20:37 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US
It's not about "being on a gold standard", we are ALWAYS on a gold standard. You may not be using it to back your money, but "money" isn't money, GOLD is money. The dollar may collapse, but your gold will always be worth something to somebody while you use $100 bills to start your campfire.

I have reminded several people about FDR taking the gold, but people just don't seem to understand when you are about to devalue the dollar, you go where the money is. Remember the reason robbers rob banks is that's where the money is. FDR knew he was about to print money for 10 years so he took the gold. If you are smart and buy gold as it increases in value, then you have become EVIL in today's terms, so we can take money from the rich and give it to the unions. The Fed is printing $600 billion in 6 months to buy debt. That is multiples worse than FDR did. When gold hits $3k-$5k an ounce, can Obama resist the commie juices that must be flowing? As you said, Hitler, Lenin, and Mussolini couldn't, it just too tempting a target. You evil speculators owe it to the "working" people.

20 posted on 12/27/2010 12:07:00 AM PST by chuckles
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