Conservative Friend of Bill in Distress, seeking FR FoB input/comment

5/27/2010 | zzeeman

[Jo Nuvark]

Good first post... congratulations!
How does it feel to breath actual air again?

Put your dependance upon God.
He only requires ONE step... of faith.

1. Knowingly or not, AA functions like a liberal
petrie dish. Self loathing is required as litmus for
“growth”. As long as you feel badly, there is a
certain amount of absolution and a huge amount of
sympathy. Who doesn’t want or need either? It’s your
new “monkey”. Self loathing serves the puppet master,
because in the end it leads to America loathing.

2. To be right or to be happy? What a stupid
pairing of concepts. To be right (correct) is a
virtue. To defend your position vigorously and
persuasively is required to be a functioning
INdependant (not dependant) adult. According to
AA’s self loathing subtext, to be happy would be
a selfish indulgence. So do they want you to loath
or love yourself? Which is it? Can’t have both.

3. Interesting that your AA group is saturated with
mindless liberals. Would anyone know if this is common?
The Twelve Step group that meets at our church is by far
liberal and enabling. Would it be safe to draw some
conclusions about addictions and liberalism? Is there
data regarding the number of people who see the conservative
light once they are sober?

4. Try Rich Warren’s “Celebrate Recovery” Twelve
Step Christian based program. Not saying you will
find only conservatives in a Christian program, but
it might be less rabbid than the one you came from.
http://www.meetup.com/Celebrate-Recovery-New-Jersey/

[donna]

Try Promise Keepers or find a local conservative church or political club to get recommendations for some solid mens groups. There will be plenty of men with AA experience wherever you go. You just need some conservative associates - life will be much more relaxed and logical when you deal with other conservatives.

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

I would recommend that you check out “Rational Recovery”, it's not for everybody but it does work (and it worked just fine for me). There are no sponsors, meetings, or “steps”, it places you in charge of your life and makes you assume the responsibility. Basicly, it quashes the “victim mentality” and dependence on other ex-drunks to prop yourself up.

I went from liter a day to stone cold sober in three days and that was seven years ago. You can do the same if you try.

Regards,
GtG

PS Your "scary" thinking is a good indication that you will find RR a plan that you can work with, and which will work for you. Best of luck.
G

[B4Ranch]

Congratulations and a healthy handshake for your successful jump into sobriety.

I suggest taking a picture of yourself after a shower and shave, posting the picture up on the wall and comparing yourself to it every day. Feeling like having a drink? Look at the picture and ask yourself if it’s okay with him to start drinking again.

Hang around FR and you’ll meet lots of great conservative Christians who you would be proud to meet. You never know, you might have one on your street or in your town.

Good Luck and God bless.

[Col Freeper]

Interesting post, and welcome to FR.

I have no experience with AA structure or meetings, so I'm of no value to you on that topic.

However, reading through your post, I get the impression that you are growing and emotionally maturing in many directions (and on many life issues) at the same time.

I also get the impression that you may be co-mingling issues that are making your struggle harder than perhaps it should be. Reading your post, it appears to me that these issues need to be dealt with separately:

1). It appears that your AA attendance should be re-focused on staying sober. You have received numerous feedback comments on that issue already. (It also sounds like you have been successful in controlling your alcohol dependency, and you should certainly be proud of that.)

Your success, your testimony, and sometimes just a warm welcome at AA meetings may be just the helping hand that someone newly joining the AA group needs to break free, and stay free from their drug dependency.

You may be as important, if not more important, than anyone else there, in helping a new member, at any given point in time. For their own reasons, they may see you as someone (perhaps the only one) they can really talk to.

2). You are certainly on the right track with your move from a liberal world-view to a conservative world-view.

You are doing the right kinds of things in educating yourself, joining FR to meet and discuss things with other conservatives, etc. (see my tagline).

But you may have to assess how you are using/will use this newly found power generated from the knowledge you are gaining.

I assume that at AA meetings, individuals give testimony about where they were in dependency, where they are now, and what led/helped them get from there to here.

I also assume this "sharing" of your life experiences is primarily to help you, but also to show others that you are not there to judge any failures in their lives.

I believe that while not everyone will respond positively to your testimony about your liberal to conservative conversion, I do believe that every liberal will respond negatively (at least initially) to hearing the truth (because it doesn't fit their world-view).

However, presenting the truth in the same manner as an AA testimonial, I believe that it is possible that some liberals will be influenced by your testimony of the fact that you had a liberal world-view, that you don't now, and why.

But I don't think any liberal will ever tend to listen beyond the point that they think they are being attacked personally ("you're a hater/racist/etc." is their default response for rejecting all conservative inputs).

I believe that, as your conservative knowledge and credentials grow, so will your confidence, and ability, in presenting them in a way that doesn't need to be confrontational, (but it can certainly be done in a firm, confident way).

And you will, I believe, realize that some liberals can change (think of yourself when you need reassurance of that), and they will seek you out, (away from the loud-mouth pushy liberal types that they themselves don't want to confront directly) because you gave them a comfort zone in which to admit they might be wrong.

LOL, well, that's all my "free" feedback, take it for what it's worth, and again, welcome to FR.

[Hot Tabasco]

He cannot figure out why people feel the need to continue going for years on end.

Last year I played softball with an elderly gentleman named John who never had a drink of alcohol in his life. Unfortunately his adult son is an alcoholic to the worst extreme.

John goes to the meetings several days a week every single week in order to offer guidance to the members there and also maintain his strength in dealing with his own son's alcohol abuse.........

[Jo Nuvark]

Well thought, well written, well done.

Wherever God sends you, be His ambassador.

[DoorGunner]

>>”I've noticed that a lot of the people in the rooms carry around a lot of guilt with them over their past behavior.”

It is my belief that you have discovered the KEY. Every human has done things that inspire feelings of guilt. Some are fortunate enough to be able to accept God's forgiveness; others are not.
Leftism specializes in pounding on people's guilt feelings, and then offering an escape: “If you will only follow the party line, you will magically become a good person, and your guilt will disappear.” It is much easier to do surface actions (wear the T-shirt, mouth the talking points, etc) than it is to engage in life changing work with God. These folks are already trying to do the very hard work of staying sober, and so, like most of us, take the path which SEEMS easier.

DG

[zzeeman]

Haha. I would love to be able to move out of this liberal rats nest some day. But I don’t need to move to a “dry” county anywhere. None of us in our household drink any alcohol, but we interact with others that do without any problems of temptation. Our move, when it can occur, would be to get away from suburbia and all of its inherent issues. THanks!

[zzeeman]

If I were you I’d swallow my political beliefs for the sake of my health and go to the meetings with the Obama supporters. If you don’t have your health, you have nothing. Besides that, you might be able to bring a few with you.

Thanks for your input. If I thought that I was close to picking up a drink, I certainly would go. I don't ever want to use AA to discuss anything political at all, that is the root of my issue (with that particular meeting). It was one of the things that I initially found attractive ("Singleness of purpose") but I have come to see that it really isn't upheld to any degree (at least around here).

[zzeeman]

[BTW, I'm sorry to all that responded for my delay in getting back to you all. I finally have a bit of time to read and reply, thanks to All for taking the time to read and reply, it is much appreciated!]

HP - yes, good advice. I have realized for quite some time (as I found myself only calling my old sponsor as a "dutiful obligation" since I no longer had any respect for him and his ignorant views) that I needed to make a change. And yes, I have to find a new meeting somewhere, even if I have to drive an hour or more to get to it.

Good advice on the other front as well. Getting involved and volunteering for efforts within our Tea Party has been a great way to meet more like-minded people. It was also something that was quite revealing to me in another way. In this area of NJ, one will usually see the same (rather large) group of people at all of the various AA meetings in the area. And when I am out and about in the area doing other things like shopping, town/county events, schools, working, etc., I quite often run into people that I know from meetings. A very natural overlap of the population subsets. But, at all of the Tea Party meetings and functions that I have attended this year (some quite large), I have not seen 1 person from any AA meeting, not even 1! I thought that was very revealing...

[zzeeman]

Thanks Siouxz!

[hennie pennie]

That's very interesting.

I'm sure, though, that there are conservatives who also attend AA meetings, but I've noticed that people who are meeting-HEAVY, are using AA as a type of "replacement addiction."

I seriously encourage you to find a new sponsor, someone whom shares your conservative world view and then no matter if it takes two hours to get there, to somehow locate a meeting where YOUR PEERS are in evidence.

AA works because it's people LIKE YOU, so you'd better the meeting that fulfills this requirement.

Guilt is healthy, but FALSE GUILT is simply a manipulative head trip, don't feel guilty about dumping a sponsor you've grown out of, replace him or her with a suitable sponsor for who you are TODAY.

[zzeeman]

Thank you for your reply.

My advice. Stay true to yourself above all else or you will not be worth much to either yourself or others. ... You do not need ANY member of the group to be conservative for you to benefit from a program that you know works.

Believe me, I haven't taken any of this "lightly," i.e., without a lot of thought, prayer, and meditation. As I mentioned above, I had the experience of "coming back" after a trip out. One of the things that I focused on when I returned, was to make a sincere effort to be more "tolerant" of others in the rooms and outside of the rooms. (When I first got to AA, after about 1 year or so, I developed the bad habit getting up to go for a smoke or use the restroom when someone started "sharing" about something that I didn't want to hear (again). Then that led to leaving early, skipping that meeting, etc. All very good ideas if you want to resume drinking!)

I soon found that this practice really didn't require much of an effort after a short while (much like the effort to build and use a phone network) and I rather enjoyed the serenity of the "Live, and Let Live" approach. Believe me, even seeing all of the hats, tee-shirts, and pins in the meetings really didn't disturb me all that much when I was still asleep at the switch. However, once I woke up, that all changed for me. (If you look back at my brief posting history here at FR you can see how much I agonized through March!)

In short, I view these regime supporters as enemies of our Country. My conscience just doesn't allow me to "break bread" with an enemy. That may sound a bit "extreme" to some, but I view this as an extreme situation. I also feel that it would be very hypocritical on my part to participate in a group merely for my own benefit (helping to stay sober, one day at a time), if I really do have an honest, genuine camaraderie or shared interest with the group. All may not share that view, but for me I can't allow myself to be that duplicitous.

[zzeeman]

Thanks again. I actually help to start a program like that at a church we attended several years ago. Unfortunately there weren't enough alcoholics that wanted to attend and it sort of devolved into a weekly gathering of shop-aholics, over-eaters, and Alanon types that wanted to get together (eat a lot of cake and cookies!) and whine about their "no good" spouses, etc.

I suspect that there are probably some other "Celebrate Recovery" type programs around that are indeed working, God bless them!

[zzeeman]

A big hat tip to you on your Jan 89 sobriety date!

I think your advice on the meeting type is key. Due to my laziness, I got into the habit of attending this particular meeting, almost to the point of exclusion of all others, since it is close by, meets 6 days a week, and worked well into my work and family schedule most days. Once I joined it as a Home Group and started taking on a lot of Service responsibilities, etc., I sort of ran out of time to make an effort to get to other meetings.

There is a Mens Meeting that I used to attend years ago, it isn't too far away, I need to make the effort to get back there. There is also a Step Meeting not too far away that I also used to attend in the past. Both of these meetings were more "blue collar" type meetings that I had always felt very comfortable at. But I got into a bad habit of not wanting to go to evening meetings (hey, it is an honest program, I'll admit it right here: they tended to interfere with watching sports and crime shows on TV!)

Looking back, I can see your point very clearly. My regular meeting was pretty much filled with those the kind of people that are more prone to being libs. Kinda like that old "don't go looking to buy a new car at the junkyard..."

And yes, liberalism is a disease (in some cases a symptom of the disease), a mental disorder. I know that I can't allow myself to fall into a "hatred" of them (although I will admit that I do struggle with that fairly often). The ones that a do have a very real issue with (like my former sponsor), are those that will not even begin to entertain the concept that MSNBC and the NYT isn't the be all and end all of news and information, especially if they claim to be so afraid of their stinking thinking that they are paralyzed into a state of perpetual ignorance.

THanks again for your advice!

[I need get to back to work, be back later to continue reading and replying further. Thank you all!]

[zzeeman]

Thanks Grunthor. I am glad to hear of your brother's sobriety. I'm not at the point where I am willing to completely throw in the towel on AA, but am I beginning to see some "issues" where I once (foolishly) saw none.

There are many people that can get (and stay) sober without AA or any other programs. I have 2 family members (that were very active alcoholics for decades) that quit later in life and stayed stopped for 20+ years until their death. Personally I stopped drinking for almost 9 years without any program. I now know that I wasn't as "sober" as I could have been during those years, but I didn't touch a drop and my life improved dramatically.

On the "fellowship" aspect. That was what I found to be the most useful part of going to meetings. Once I understood how to use the steps as a "guide to living" on a daily basis (and became willing to practice them to the best of my abilities each day), going to meetings provided a sort of "community" for me. That is why I find them so difficult now, I really don't feel a part of a group of people that hold such dangerous and disturbing beliefs, and show a reckless disregard for their actions as citizens.

[zzeeman]

Hat tip to your brother-in-law on his 5+ years of sobriety. See my last post to Grunthor above.

It could be, the stronger more recovered you are, and clear thinking, less dependant, you need less?

One thing that I wholeheartedly agree with BillW on is this: “What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition.” It is what has worked for me, both within and outside of the program.

[zzeeman]

Talking your advice to heart and acting on it to the best of my abilities. Thanks again for your input!

[zzeeman]

Thanks TC. Funny thing is (at least around here, not sure about elsewhere) is that the few more conservative (fundamental, Bible-based) churches don’t host any AA/NA meetings. The more liberal churches are the ones that seem to host them all (and some in hospitals). Maybe that fact says something in and of itself! Hmmmm.