Posted on 03/04/2010 9:05:47 AM PST by MplsSteve
I’m sorry..but the idea of an open air baseball stadium in Minnesota is patently ridiculous..
“One of the (few) really brilliant things Jesse did was start a Stadium Fund for people who wanted to voluntarily pay for a stadium. He even put the first $1000 in. I think they ended up with about $1005. Big talkers, little contributors.”
Remember the Happy To Pay For A Better Minnesota crowd from a few years ago? They posted a full-page ad in the RedStar saying that they felt like they weren’t paying enough in taxes.
Gov Pawlenty (to his rare credit) did what Ventura did. He held a press conference and said that he was personally willing to take any checks that these people wanted to write. He’d personally see to it that these checks would be deposited to the Department of Revenue.
Last time I checked, I recall that there were few takers. Lots of talk and little action.
That worked out so well for the anti-stadium crowd in Houston and Cleavland, didn't it? The naysayers won the argument, the teams picked up and left, fans had their hearts ripped out, millions of tax payer dollars were saved, and that was the end of the story; just like with the North Stars. What a minute...
How much was spent to obtain the Texans, the new Browns, and the Wild again; including new stadiums plus expansion fees? Just think of the billions saved if the cities just kept the teams that had in the first place.
If you're tired of fighting the Viking stadium push, will you have the energy to fight "The Committee to Return the NFL To Minnesota"; especially when people realize that they did in fact like having a team more than they thought they did, the two thirds against stadium spending dwindles to a quarter, and the next Norm Coleman makes getting a team back the centerpiece of his career?
Penny wise and dollar foolish.
Believe it or not, if I stumbled across a few hundred million, that's the first thing I would do.
I’m uptight and cranky because I care more about good roads than I do about a billionaire’s dreams?
Nobody in this state ever danced in the streets all night with thousands of strangers, and collectively felt joy at the memories for years to come because the streets they were dancing on were smooth. That required a baseball team playing in a publicly financed stadium that is now worn out and obsolete for both sports it hosted.
God invented baseball to make summer days summer days. God invented football to help people cope with the end of summer. God invented spring to help people cope with the end of hockey season. Good roads are akin to clean socks and dental hygiene; not bad things in themselves but hardly the essence of life and great memories; and not mutually exclusive to the things that are the essence of life, unless you're a cranky old coot.
and the next Norm Coleman makes getting a team back the centerpiece of his career?
That worked out great for Normy (the weaselly little RINO)
What’s he doing now anyway? Working as a lobbyist for General Mills?
IF people like you didn’t exist big spending politicians would invent you.
“Just think of the billions saved if the cities just kept the teams that had in the first place.”
Just think of the billions saved if these billionaires used their own money instead of taxpayers money.
There is a supreme arrogance among many pro sports team owners that somehow their product is so damned good that we (the taxpayers) should be expected to pick up the tab for it.
We are important only so long as we’re willing to pony up the money to help them realize their dreams and god forbid, if anyone out there questions them and says “Hey wait, why don’t you pay for this yourself?”
Suddenly, those of us opposed to giving what constitutes as as a free handout are labelled as “cranky”, “uncivic” or
“penny-wise and pound-foolish”.
If building a new pro sports venue was such a good f___ing idea, then why are these owners not ponying up the money themselves?
Two reasons come to mind...
1. The supreme arrogance factor (as discussed above).
2. The knowledge that these sports venues do not (in most cases) recoup what was paid to contstruct them - thus leading many a team owner to say “Why should I pay for a new stadium, arena, etc. when I can make EVERYONE else pay for it?”
“If people like you didn’t exist big spending politicians would invent you.”
Cripes, that’s the truth. Minn has got liberal written all over him.
As Jason Lewis says - “Spending begets Spending”. If the taxpayers build a stadium in Minneapolis they also have to give St. Paul some big white elephant as the price of getting the St Paul politicans’ vote. If you give St. Paul a big pile of cash you have to give St. Cloud and Duluth something. And on and on and round and round it goes.
The arrogance of fans is even worse. Since I love professional baseball you should to or there’s something wrong with you.
I don’t even think he’s necessarily liberal. Just so besotted with the sport he can’t think straight.
It made him a senator. Things like ANWR and an inability to fight for things like he did for Xcel made him an ex senator.
Read my other posts and see if you still think that. I just believe that, unlike many other possible use of tax dollars, stadiums for pro teams meet the definition of public good. Failure to see the tangible and intangible benefits provided by major pro sports in town requires economic obtuseness of mammoth proportions.
Disagreement with that requires the position that the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB have been illegitimate through their entire histories, since nearly all teams in all leagues have always played in publicly financed stadiums.
Arguments about stadiums ultimately only end one way, with the construction of a stadium. With the possible exception of Milwaukee, nobody ever remembers what the fight was about.
He won the first time because the party line was “Don’t look at his record. Trust Us, he’s really a good guy.”
, nobody ever remembers what the fight was about.
Many of us still remember the fight over the Metrodome, bitterly. The fight was over the misuse of public money. True the fight is harder during flush times. It'll be a slam dunk now that there isn't a dime to spare.
Your position is that what the mob wants the mob should get. And if the easiest way to pay for it is to use the threat of violence from the state to coerce money from your neighbors who won’t give to you voluntarily then sobeit.
Your position is neither conservative or liberal. It is simply unprincipled.
That's just nuts. You would really go back and deny the area the use of that building (tacky and antiquated as it is)over the last 30 years if you could? No World Series? No Super Bowl? No final four? No Prep Bowl? Nothing? Seriously? The private sector would have provided and the opportunity cost of what we gave up to buy the Dome larger than what we got? That building that has been paid for for the longest time? And it really still sticks in your craw? For real? What was it, 55 million? Two million a year or so during it's life? How many hundred billion have been spent by the state, county, and city since then? Wouldn't it have been worth the $200 or so it might cost you in your lifetime to have just had it done five years ago and to not have to waste any of your time thinking or arguing about it, while rivers of cash massively bigger flow from state coffers regularly for far more dubious and costly purposes like trains nobody rides?
What the you anti-stadium fire breathers fail to grasp is the triviality of the thing you are arguing so passionately about. "It's about the damn principle of giving subsidies to millionaires." Stadium fights end when the stadium is built because the numbers involved are quite small in the scheme of things. No state ever went broke building a stadium. Nobody in their right mind even remembers it, let alone stews about it with righteous indignation 30 years later, or even two years later. Play Ball!
It’s so simple if you have no principles.
No World Series? No Super Bowl? No final four? No Prep Bowl?
You present a false choice. But if it is a choice between the final four and tyranny or no final four and freedom I’ll pick freedom. And yes that is worth fighting for.
Wow. You were saying something about false choices? What are you sitting at your computer for? There's a local park and rec department near you at this moment working to oppress you with unprincipled dog parks and seesaws . Hit the barricades, man.
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