Posted on 01/10/2010 5:41:32 PM PST by Colofornian
Why can’t I simply be baptized in Christ?
Verily, Verily I say unto you...
Sounds kind of like Amway.
Sounds kind of like Amway.
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Lol. Actually it kind of is. There is a view among the LDS (lay theology) that for every faithful convert you bring into the LDS church, you will add to your glory in the Celestial Kingdom (where you progress to godhood).
I have known LDS members who seek out and befriend people going through transitions (birth, death, engagement, marriage, etc) because they are more likely to join a church during this time with the hope that they will become Gods sooner.
Why can’t I simply be baptized in Christ?
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To the LDS, baptism in the LDS church IS baptism in Christ and vice versa. There is NO difference to them.
They believe that only they TRULY worship Christ and so baptism in Christ is only valid if it includes membership in the LDS.
They all claimed to be christian today, while saying they are the only true church of Christ.
I don’t understand how you(they) can be the only true church of christ.
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This idea comes out of JS’s interest (and Sidney Rigdon’s ministerial training) in the Restoration movement which was prominent in the early 19th Century. Here is a very basic introduction to it:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Restoration-movement.html
The idea was that Christianity needed to return to the New Testament church. Smith (and Rigdon who developed most early LDS theology) incorporated many of Campbell’s ideas and took some to the extreme.
The LDS really do believe they are the ONLY true Christians and that the LDS church is EXACTLY how Jesus Christ established it here on earth. They believe that Christ, while here on earth, established a specific denomination and that JS restored it because after the death of Jesus and the apostles fell into apostasy. IOW, Jesus was mistaken (or lying) when he said that the ‘gates of hell shall not prevail’ shall not prevail against His church.
I have never been able to get a satisfactory answer as to how the LDS can change practice/doctrine yet still claim to be the Original New Testament church. The excuse of continuing revelation falls flat in that they are in essence stating that Christ did not really establish the full church (and thus the early Christian believers are apostates) OR they are admitting to changing the “restored” gospel making the LDS church a “reformed” church instead.
Their Twinity, of God and Jesus appearing as men, is just so much nonsense.
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I read recently something that stated asked how the LDS could believe in a God that threw out “spiritual red herrings”. The Bible (and Jesus) teaches that God is spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and truth, and then 2000 years later “POOF” God shows up to Smith in a body of flesh and bones! That is a huge “Gotcha” to all the believers who lived for thousands of years believing He was a Spirit.
I have been instructed to read something, that upon my reading it and asking God for word and truth of its reading, will leave me with no other choice but to accept the word of their Seer as the gospel of god.
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It was most likely “Moroni’s Promise” in the Book of Mormon.
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. [Moroni 10:4]
The problem with this passage is it is circular. If you pray and DO NOT recieve a witness that it is true, then it is YOUR fault. You either...
didn’t ask in the name of Christ...
have a sincere heart...
real intent...
or have faith in Christ.
Add to that the pressure of friends/missionaries testifying that THEY felt the “burning in the bosom” when they prayed about the BOM (or any other LDS doctrine) it is easy to convince yourself that you are having the same experience or do not have enough faith.
Important note: The BIBLE NEVER says anything about praying to know if it is true. It doesn’t need to.
Thank you again from a Christian for Jesus.
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Soli Deo Gloria.
I am only doing what I really believe God has called me to do. I used to decry my membership in the LDS, and felt guilty for believing such blasphemies. Now I can see that, while it was not God’s will I join the LDS, He has used that experience for His glory.
The answer I got back was “well, you have to be sincere”
To which I replied “isn't that a little like trying to convince an agnostic? I mean, if they are not seeking or not open, you aren't going to get anywhere”
Their reply came again “Read it and pray with sincerity”
Again my rejoinder “You really are asking for a predisposed outcome”/
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Anyway, dumb argument.
I did learn that LDS is growing by 500,000 per year. Seems high to me and I am sure that is not all from convert but ordination over coffee cans(dead bodies)
Maybe it was Halloween and he was high on Paoti?
Hmmm... well the fallacy of that position is what if I join another denomination? Do I then lose my salvation?
Maybe it was Halloween and he was high on Paoti?
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Actually, there is an academic article (I think Mark Bsnr linked it) that JS was likely using “magic mushrooms” at the time.
I did learn that LDS is growing by 500,000 per year. Seems high to me and I am sure that is not all from convert
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Ask for proof of that. Seriously.
There are several sources (I can find them if you would like) that shows the LDS is at a 0% growth rate and almost all of their numbers come from children born to members (aka Children of record). Their convert retention rate past the one year mark (required to even consider going to the temple) is less than 50%.
They are hemorrhaging in huge numbers and have been for the last several years. Yet the members still push the lie the leaders tell them that it is the “fastest growing church in the world” (the SDA’s passed them a few years ago).
That was it! and my question was “It seems to me the dependency is in their belief system only. Not the salvation of Jesus Christ”
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Pretty much. They do not believe that salvation (exaltation to them) exists outside the LDS church. If the LDS church falls then so does their hope of salvation. They are brainwashed from childhood to believe “if the LDS church is not true, no church is”.
It is a major factor as to why so many who leave the LDS become athiests/agnostics.
I thought I had read an article last year posted by colofornia seeing the same attrition and stacking the deck with “Coffee Can” conversions.
Who are SDA?
SDA = Seventh Day Adventists.
Hmmm... well the fallacy of that position is what if I join another denomination? Do I then lose my salvation?
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If you were LDS? Then yes, definitely. Apostates (like me) are the only ones other than those who followed Lucifer after the war in heaven to be cast into their version of Hell called “Outer Darkness”.
Once you join the LDS, leaving and joining another denom is a rejection of Mormonism, the “true” gospel, Joseph Smith and Christ.
It is a one way ticket to Outer Darkness.
If you were never LDS, Baptist then became Presbyterian, it doesn’t matter to the LDS b/c you are ignorant of “true” Christianity. You are just moving from one apostate group to another.
I was kidding....Really? magic mushrooms? LOL
I have seen some pretty strange things when I drink. So this spiritual leader/seer/prophet was comfortable doing drugs?
Too much. ROTFLMAO!!!!
Hope they don’t start an insurrection or join forces with those Amish.
Could be trouble. LOL
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, at least today.
God’s promise of salvation is inviolable. Least that is what he had some old guys write.
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