Posted on 03/21/2009 6:26:13 AM PDT by cowboyway
“Now, if you’re not going to do it then why not pretend you did and ignore me? You know, like you pretend that it was all Lincoln’s fault and you pretend how Lee and Jackson were opposed to slavery, and you pretend how the South’s gonna rise again.”
Now are you saying no State has any right to self-determination and cannot withdraw from this Federal Beast no matter how tyrannical this Federal government might EVER become?
“Where resort can be had to no tribunal superior to the authority of the parties, the parties themselves must be the rightful judges in the last resort, whether the bargain made has been pursued or violated. The Constitution of the United States was formed by the sanction of the States, given by each in its sovereign capacity. The States then, being parties to the constitutional compact and in their sovereign capacity, it follows of necessity that there can be no tribunal above their authority to decide, in the last resort, whether the compact made by them be violated, and consequently that, as the parties to it, they must themselves decide, in the last resort, such questions as may be of sufficient magnitude to require their interposition.” James Madison, “Report on the Virginia Resolutions”, Elliot’s Debates, Vol. 4, p. 548, 7 Jan 1800
From #1125: "You ought to get the ban hammer for being such an obvious troll."
You call that a 'threat'? You really are a little sissy.
You ought to get the ban hammer for being such a sniveling little girl.
Oops! Is that another 'threat'?
Now, if you're not going to do it then why not pretend you did and ignore me?
I like making you cry.
You know, like you pretend that it was all Lincoln's fault and you pretend how Lee and Jackson were opposed to slavery, and you pretend how the South's gonna rise again.
It just galls you to no end knowing that Lee and Jackson and Longstreet and Stuart and Hill and Forrest were all brave, honorable men and that the best you had to offer was the likes of dishonorable cowards such as Lincoln, Grant, Sherman, Custer, etc.
Y'all read what you want!
about which there is no theoretic controversy
More Non-Sequitur liberalism! Look at the WHOLE...During that period/Not King Lincoln..
Let's look at what Madison believed shall we?
“[The Constitution] was constantly justified and recommended on the ground that the powers not given to the government were withheld from it; and that, if any doubt could have existed on this subject, under the original text of the Constitution, it is removed, as far as words could remove it, by the [10th] amendment, now a part of the Constitution, which expressly declares, ‘that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.’
”The other position involved in this branch of the resolution, namely, ‘that the states are parties to the Constitution,’ or compact, is, in the judgment of the committee, equally free from objection... It appears to your committee to be a plain principle, founded in common sense, illustrated by common practice, and essential to the nature of compacts, that, where resort can be had to no tribunal superior to the authority of the parties, the parties themselves must be the rightful judges, in the last resort, whether the bargain made has been pursued or violated. The Constitution of the United States was formed by the sanction of the states, given by each in its sovereign capacity. It adds to the stability and dignity, as well as to the authority, of the Constitution, that it rests on this legitimate and solid foundation. The states, then, being the parties to the constitutional compact, and in their sovereign capacity, it follows of necessity that there can be no tribunal, above their authority, to decide, in the last resort, whether the compact made by them be violated; and consequently, that, as the parties to it, they must themselves decide, in the last resort, such questions as may be of sufficient magnitude to require their interposition.”
That's exactly what he's saying and he's been saying it on this board for years.
He's such a joke. He rails away about the horrors of slavery and that there are absolutely no conditions that he would allow himself to become a slave and then says that the union must be preserved even if we lose our freedom. Duh...........
A pathetically boring hypocrite............yeah, I'm talking about you, NS.
You gonna start crying and kick the dog again?
So...are you going to try and have me banned as well?
Now are you saying no State has any right to self-determination and cannot withdraw from this Federal Beast no matter how tyrannical this Federal government might EVER become?
No I am not. I have never said that. I believe what Madison believed. "A rightful secession requires the consent of the others, or an abuse of the compact, absolving the seceding party from the obligations imposed by it." And before you try and jump all over the second half of that sentence, Madison also said in the same letter, that since the states are equal then "neither can have more rights to say that the compact has been violated and dissolved, than every other has to deny the fact, and to insist on the execution of the bargains."
To put it plainly, secession requires the consent of both sides of the issue - the side staying and the side leaving.
James Madison, “Report on the Virginia Resolutions
"...I do not consider the proceedings of Virginia in ’98-’99 as countenancing the doctrine that a state may at will secede from its Constitutional compact with the other States." -- James Madison, 1832
And where in either of those quotes does Madison say that states may leave at will? You yourself posted quotes from Madsion showing be believed exactly the opposite - that states could not unilaterally secede. Show me a single quote from Madison, or any other founder, that specifically says states may leave at will without consent of the other states and I might start thinking that you have any clue as to what you're talking about.
It amuses me to hear you say that. Considering how little you seem to know about honor, much less bravery.
(*yawn*) You still here? Wait a minute, I'm still here???? Whatsa matter? Don't have the influence with the mods you thought you did?
Nope..We have what y'all might call a Compact by CHOICE! Not Force like Stalin,Hitler or Your King Lincoln might say
Choice? In 37 of 50 instances the other states 'chose' to let a new state join. Shouldn't they have a choice in whether they leave?
Why not? They allowed them to join in the first place, in effect creating the state to begin with. Why shouldn't they have a say if they want to leave? How else would potential areas of disagreement be resolved?
Do not the graves of 600,000 men speak loud enough? What more proof do the butchers of the world want or need? To answer in the affirmative means yes to war.
You answered 'no' in 1861 and got your war anyway.
"Why not?" We must look at the WHOLE...INTENT
Don't y'all read what the Framers INTENDED by the Second Amendment or are you a “CASE LAW” kinda guy?
“We the Delegates of the People of the State of Rhode-Island, and Providence Plantations...do declare and make known...That the powers of government may be reassumed by the people, whensoever it shall become necessary to their happiness”
In his First Inaugural Address he declared, “If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this union . . . let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.”
My Lord Non-Sequitur!
Are you the President of the Hells Angles? MOB? Y'all can join BUT in the event y'all leave..We'll place some weighted shoes on ya and toss ya in a deep lake!!
I figure that goes hand in hand with burning houses Yankee style
You do like to throw stuff out at random, don’t you?
You didn’t read reply 1185, did you?
Who fired the first shot?
The South.
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