They can put him in some hall of fame out here with his favorite team...
Pete Rose does not deserve Cooperstown.
Posted on 01/12/2009 11:24:22 AM PST by GreatOne
To add to my prior post, guys on the list above that deserved the HOF before Rice:
Andre Dawson, Mark McGwire, Don Mattingly.
Rickey didn’t want to retire. Even after no major league club was interested in him, he played for an unaffiliated minor league team called the San Diego Surf Dawgs, hoping to get back in. He was 46 and his teammates were mostly about 23. That didn’t count against his five-year waiting period after leaving the major leagues before he was eligible for the Hall of Fame.
Based upon what. When was Bert even the best pitcher on his own staff, much less the league? Three or four times, maybe? Personifies “good, but not great.” Hung around long enough to get some good stats. Just because a mistake was made with Sutton doesn’t mean it should be compounded with Blyleven. His contemporaries who have made it so far (Palmer, Seaver, Jenkins, Niekro, Hunter, Carlton, and Perry) are head and shoulders better than him.
Ricky Henderson was simply one of the two or three best leadoff hitters of all time.
I'm in agreement with other posters: when players like Mays, Aaron, Ruth, etc. are not unanimously elected, those voters need to be removed from the rolls. At the very least, publicize their votes so they can justify themselves.
Some "sportswriters" just like being jerks, and they feel that no one should get a unanimous ballot, so they will specifically not vote for a player because they know that they will get so many other votes.
Look at these numbers:
Ty Cobb 222 of 226 ballots
98.2%
Babe Ruth 215 of 226 ballots
95.1%
Cy Young 153 of 201 ballots
76.1%
Ted Williams 282 of 302 ballots
93.4%
Mickey Mantle 322 of 365 ballots
88.2%
Willie Mays 409 of 432 ballots
94.7%
Hank Aaron 406 of 415 ballots
97.8%
Tom Seaver 425 of 430 ballots
98.8%
Nolan Ryan 491 of 497 ballots
98.8%
Cal Ripken Jr 537 of 545 ballots
98.5%
The Cy Young vote boggles my mind, but even the last three votes are ridiculous. Are we to believe that there were 8 "sportswriters" who didn't think Cal Ripken Jr deserved to be in the HoF? Or 6 "sportswriters" who didn't think Nolan Ryan deserved to be there? Or 5 who felt that Tom Seaver didn't measure up?
No, there is all sorts of games and politics that go along with the HoF voting.
“Ricky Henderson was simply one of the two or three best leadoff hitters of all time.”
Rickey was the best leadoff hitter of all time. There were none better. Just ask him.
Beg to differ. If Rice is in, the Hawk definitely should be.
Rice: 16 seasons, .298 BA, 2452 H, 382 HR, 1451 RBI.
Dawson: 21 seasons, .279 BA, 2774 H, 438 HR, 1591 RBI.
Rice was only as good a fielder as he was because he knew how to play the Green Monster. He was not an asset on the road. Dawson played center and left, and had much better range before Montreal’s turf ruined his knees and he had a much better arm.
Your memory of Dawson is clouded by seeing him in his last few seasons. From 1977 to 1992, nobody was feared more than the Hawk. Had a friend who was a pitcher in the Reds organization and finally made a brief stop in the majors. He was called to face Dawson in 1st major league appearance in 1987. The Reds were nursing a one run lead with two runners on in the 7th. Three pitches later the one run lead was a two run deficit. I remember saying “Oh Mike...you had to face Dawson...”
Henderson is the greatest baseball player I have ever seen in the game. Period. If ever there were a unanimous selection he should be it. I don’t think his record for stolen bases is even approachable, especially in today’s power-hungry game, and especially when you consider that Brock is 500 back in second place. My congratulations.
I agree with Dawson, but no way would McGwire or Mattingly get my vote. McGwire, because of his pumped-up, steroid assisted stats. Mattingly- as a lifelong Yankee fan, I still couldn’t vote him in. When you have a shortened career, you need to make every year count to be HOF worthy (see Koufax and Puckett). Donnie didn’t do that, sad to say.
Rose should be inducted before McGwire, Sosa or Bonds. Anyone who knows Rose knows he would NEVER throw a game to win a bet. McGwire, Sosa and Bonds cast doubt on the integrity of the game.
I wouldn’t vote for any of them. To vote for them condones what they did.
Kids from the new millenium will have no idea what it meant to be a Red Sox fan. Bucky freakin’ Dent ... Stone Fingers I and II ... the interference call ... the list goes on.
In the early 1980s, the Oakland A’s accounting department was freaking out. The books were off $1 million. After an investigation, it was determined Rickey was the reason why. The GM asked him about a $1 million bonus he had received and Rickey said instead of cashing it, he framed it and hung it on a wall at his house.
No. Yes. No.
If Dawson didn't have 1987, we're not even talking about him, and one great year doesn't cut it. He and Mattingly are victims of being injury-prone, unfortunately. I'm more open to Mattingly, particularly because of his fielding, but he only had about 4 or 5 "great" years. Comparisons to Kirby Puckett are ludicrous, btw.
While I'm not happy about McGwire's juicing, it's obvious that the majority of MLB was using as well, and he stood head and shoulders above them.
I don’t think a player’s accumulated stats are nearly as important as looking at their peak years. If a player is dominant for a significant period (10-12 years) then he is HOF worthy.
Compare his numbers with a contemporary like George Brett and you realize that he should have been in the hall long ago.
I’m a Yankee fan and he was definitely one of the hitters I feared most.
Keep in mind that the people ahead of him (and his 315) on the HDP list are the following: Cal Ripken, Jr. (350), Hank Aaron (328), Carl Yastrzemski 323), Dave Winfield (319), and Eddie Murray (316). Not bad company.
Didn't Rose bet on his own team to win when he was a manager. That is bad because that means you could go all out to win one game, even if it costs you several games. A case in point, making your closer pitch more than an inning, making him unavailable for the next two games.
They can put him in some hall of fame out here with his favorite team...
Pete Rose does not deserve Cooperstown.
All I meant to imply is that Mattingly was more fitting than Rice, because he contributed more to his team. I’d agree that neither belongs, ultimately.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.