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Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 for Home Defense?
n/a | today | Me

Posted on 12/29/2008 8:12:39 AM PST by gOOsefmalOOsef

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To: All

Both are excellent, inexpensive yet quality home defense weapons but I would go with the 870

Either way, you can’t go wrong.


101 posted on 12/29/2008 10:45:12 AM PST by Rodney Dangerfield (Barack Obama aka "The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers")
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To: gOOsefmalOOsef

Both of them go bang and probably leave an exit wound the size of a fist. Go for either one


102 posted on 12/29/2008 11:06:03 AM PST by wastedyears (In Canada, Santa says "Ho Ho, eh?")
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To: gOOsefmalOOsef

Neither.

Get yourself an AR-15 carbine. 14.5” barrel with permanently welded flash hider.

Preferably, if your state allows it, do the paperwork and get an AR-15 with an 11.5” barrel.

8 shot magazine on a shotgun, compared to 30 rounds for an AR-15 magazine. No contest. Especially if you consider the threat of a home invasion with more than 1 bad guy.


103 posted on 12/29/2008 11:10:10 AM PST by joseph20 (...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
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To: gOOsefmalOOsef
The Mossberg Maverick 88 has not been mentioned yet on this thread. It is a lower priced weapon which is assembled in the USA from some foreign parts. I got the 7+1 model for home defense and find it to be satisfactory except for the plastic safety which is difficult to operate.

http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/88security.htm

To solve the safety problem, I leave the safety off but do not chamber a round. The slide release is convienient and easy to operate, so I know that I have to rack the gun to be ready to fire.

104 posted on 12/29/2008 11:47:25 AM PST by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: Right Cal Gal

It also tells them where you are.

Yes. Which brings us to the subject of tactics, since it’s not enough just to have a good weapon. You need a plan. And training, which just means practice, which you can do in the privacy of your own home.

One that works is to let them hear the shotgun rack a round from part of the house remote from their position, where you are waiting for them to come to you. Now you have both the psychological and geographical advantage.

You see, not being a CHP, or other law enforcement officer, means you don’t have to go after the dirtbag, but can let him risk coming to you.


105 posted on 12/29/2008 11:57:27 AM PST by DPMD (~)
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To: Pontiac

Re: Anyone who shoots in the dark is a fool.

So if it’s 2Am and I hear and can identify gang members in the hallway, I am a fool for shooting them?

Guess I should turn on the lights so we can shake hands and get acquainted. /extreme sarc


106 posted on 12/29/2008 12:32:21 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Guns don't kill people; abortion clinics do.)
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To: gOOsefmalOOsef

Both are good weapons and worth their price. I think you could bet your life on either one.

I own a 5000A. I like the safety placement on the 500A, even though it is probably less rugged than the one on 870. I don’t rely much on safeties but I figure it could save some lost drunk’s life some night. All things considered, I’d probably prefer the steel receiver of the 870 over the aluminum receiver of the 500A. Both will accept rifle sights and I’m not picky enough to tell a major difference in sight picture. Both, I believe, come drilled and tapped to make installation of optics easy.

As you can see from the comments, after that it comes down to a mostly religious argument. :o)

All things considered it comes down to which one you feel, after handling both, you can use more effectively. As I say, both are good guns.


107 posted on 12/29/2008 1:03:09 PM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Illegal Immigration is not about the immigration. Gun control is not about the guns.)
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To: Pontiac
At ten (10) feet a 12Ga Shot gun acts just loke a 0.75 Cal Rifle. While it will not cut the target in hald, it can remove most of an arm and completely destroy a hip.

One shot should do the job.

108 posted on 12/29/2008 1:04:41 PM PST by An Old Man
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To: Red in Blue PA
Guess I should turn on the lights so we can shake hands and get acquainted.

No, add a laser red dot and a flashlight. I did :)

My Mossberg 9200, 18.5 Riot/LE smooth bore barrel.:


109 posted on 12/29/2008 1:14:24 PM PST by Malsua
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To: Red in Blue PA
So if it’s 2Am and I hear and can identify gang members in the hallway, I am a fool for shooting them?

Better to be judged by 12 than be carried by 6 always applies, but if you can not clearly identify your target you are better off turning on the light than killing a relative.

I can speak from experience.

One night my stepson was supposed to be spending the night at a friend’s. He came home late at night with out a call to let us know. His mother woke me and said she heard someone down stairs. I picked up my 1911 and went down stairs. I half expected it was him for no good reason and called out his name he didn’t answer at first. He stepped out in to the light saw my pistol and turned white as a ghost.

I could have shot him but waited to see who it was. Glad I did. It is a rocky marriage much of the time but we manage. Killing her son would have been the end for sure.

110 posted on 12/29/2008 1:28:07 PM PST by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: An Old Man
One shot should do the job.

I would never question that a 12 gage does the job nicely.

I just question if it is the best tool for home defense for the average home owner.

My personal choice is a Colt 1911 with Cor-bon safety slugs.

Hits hard and doesn’t penetrate walls.

I can point and shoot out to 20 yards and hit a man sized target. It’s all I need.

111 posted on 12/29/2008 1:42:10 PM PST by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: joseph20

Whether to use a shotgun or a rifle should depend at least in part on how close the neighbors are and how fond you are of them.

Stopping power is also an issue. 12 Gauge factory loads give you around 1590 foot pounds of muzzle energy. Most 5.56mm loadings have a muzzle energy of around 1250-1290 foot pounds. (For comparison, a .45ACP gives you around 330 foot pounds.) If your round over penetrates it may not impart its full energy to the target - and at across the room distances a 5.56mm round will but a shotgun probably won’t. Either will make your target dead. A shotgun will in most cases tend to make it deader.


112 posted on 12/29/2008 1:46:14 PM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Illegal Immigration is not about the immigration. Gun control is not about the guns.)
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To: Travis T. OJustice

“I love it when a post starts like this.”

Me too! You do have to admit that I justified it. Admit it you must. <-— said while waving hand in the air with a peculiar little gesture... (which does NOT involve the middle finger ;)

And hey, it’s even actually decent advice! Bonus!


113 posted on 12/29/2008 2:37:14 PM PST by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
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To: DrNo

“If/when a firearm is introduced into a home, careful thought needs to be put into where/how it will be kept, and EVERYONE in the house who will have access to it needs to know how to HANDLE it safely (not necessarily how to shoot it).”

I disagree with one part of your post here. EVERYONE needs to know how to shoot it. I can think of at least three situations here in the past decade where a kid with his family’s gun saved his family. Mostly teens, but one, IIRC, was only 8 or 9. There have most likely been many more.

The best way to avoid the necessity is to be prepared for it. Teach them ALL! Then pray you never need it. Sure beats doing it the other way round!


114 posted on 12/29/2008 2:44:36 PM PST by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
Whether to use a shotgun or a rifle should depend at least in part on how close the neighbors are and how fond you are of them.

This is one of the most common myths out there. No offense, really. There is no meaningful penetration difference between buckshot and .223 rounds. Both will go through several (at least 7 or more) normal house walls before coming to a stop. Look for yourself: The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

Stopping power is also an issue

And there really is no meaningful stopping power difference between buckshot and .223 ammunition. There is no clear proof that the "loss" of kinetic energy via over-pentration plays a part in terminal effectiveness (In ballistics science, this is a controversial point). Either way, buckshot stands just as much of a chance of failing to stop inside the bad guy as does .223 ammunition.

The most important thing, actually, is to use the tool that YOU are comfortable with, that you have confidence in, and that you shoot well.

Assuming that I shot equally well between the two, I'd rather have 30 rounds of .223 coming out of an AR-15 with an 12.5" barrel and a suppressor (compared to a shotgun with an 8 round magazine).
115 posted on 12/29/2008 2:50:41 PM PST by joseph20 (...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
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To: Old Student

“Mostly teens, but one, IIRC...”

Oh, and there was one who had to use a knife! MUCH too up-close-and-personal!


116 posted on 12/29/2008 2:55:25 PM PST by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
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To: gOOsefmalOOsef

They are both good shotguns. Also consider the Remington 870 Police, and the Mossberg 590A1.


117 posted on 12/29/2008 3:20:05 PM PST by 04-Bravo
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To: joseph20
There is no meaningful penetration difference between buckshot and .223 rounds. Both will go through several (at least 7 or more) normal house walls before coming to a stop. Look for yourself: The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

Yes, a 00 buckshot load will penetrate seven sheets of dry wall. That means it goes through three walls, loosing energy all the way, and lodges in the fourth.

As shown here.

5.56 mil on the other hand penetrated 12 sheets, six walls, and kept on going. I'd call that meaningful, as in at least 100% more penetration with 5.56 mil versus 00 buck. (In the same test 5.56mm also penetrated twelve 3/4 inch pine boards. Doubt I could do that with 00 buck.)

As shown here.

That translates into about twice the chance to kill someone you can't see and don't want to hurt downrange.

For apartment and condo dwellers there is an added factor. My apartment, like many others, is separated from the neighbors by a fire rated wall consisting of two sheets of dry wall and two sheets of 3/4th inch plywood, plus insulation. In my case most of the walls are also armored with about six inches of books. I am reasonably confident; confident enough to risk going to jail or facing a civil lawsuit that would break me if I ever have to shoot and I'm wrong, that this barrier will slow down a 00 load enough to prevent injury to the neighbors. I'm not so sure about a 5.56mm round.

There is also the fact that I can't legally own any rifle with more than a 10 round, internal, non detachable magazine. Where I, and about 36 million other people live, a shotgun is my best choice for home defense. I really have though this through.

118 posted on 12/29/2008 3:48:20 PM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Illegal Immigration is not about the immigration. Gun control is not about the guns.)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
The 00 buck penetrated 8 sheets, actually. Eight sheets versus 12 is not much of a difference. Even with your plywood and insulation, the 00 buck is going to penetrate into the adjacent apartment.

In this Box O' Truth we have 00 buck penetrating 2 interior walls (4 sheets), a jug of water, and then finally smashing a wall of bricks that are enclosed in 3/4" pine boards.

By the way, that's too bad you live in a non-free State. Ever considered moving? ;)
119 posted on 12/29/2008 4:03:31 PM PST by joseph20 (...to ourselves and our Posterity...)
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To: joseph20

A 2009 project. I hate to leave because annoying the libs is so much fun. I never thought I’d say this but it’s getting to the point here where resistance is futile.


120 posted on 12/29/2008 5:11:10 PM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Illegal Immigration is not about the immigration. Gun control is not about the guns.)
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