Russia's last tsar rehabilitated [ Nicholas II and his family ]

BBC ^ | Wednesday, October 1, 2008 | James Rodgers et al

[SunkenCiv]

I’d guess that the Russian crown wanted to open up commerce and communication within its realm, as well as with the outside world. The early 20th c war with Japan was a disaster for Russia, and although the railway project antedates that, it seems likely that, had things gone differently (i.e., no WWI), a port and naval presence in the Pacific would have followed. For the war with Japan, the Russians were forced to circumnavigate Africa just to get to the theater (I forget what happened there, some diplomatic row with France or England or whomever was running the Suez Canal). Again, seems like Russia should have thought it throw a bit better before trying to wage a war with Japan.

[Nowhere Man]

Maybe your gr gr grandfather would tell you to leave for Russia now. I was poking around the net, and that was one of the odd places suggested for people who feel they might want to leave the country didn't seem so much because of the economy but other things. There is inflation around Moscow (and Siberia, too, I think), but you can buy a house, granted probably not like ours, in one of the smaller villages for $1,000 to $5,000. I have no idea what life would be like there, think restrictive in some ways but freer than ours in other ways.

Did you ever find out what happened to him?

Hmmmm, the bad thing about Russia now is they are too much tied to the oil market, I know they have industry over there, they do make cars and such but beyond that, oil and military stuff, they don't seem to make too much. I do plead ignorance on knowing their whole economy but I just feel that Russia should diversify a bit. Still, they do have a flat income tax, an idea advocated by Steve Forbes and many libertarian and conservative groups. Also, I think you can even own an automatic weapon over there all you do is buy it. I think in some ways, they are freer than us, other ways not.

My great, great grandfather, well, I never knew what happened to him although if I could go back in time and go against him to save the Romanovs, I would. I would try my best not to harm him physically, but I believe doing the right thing is the most important of all and what happened to the Royal Family was very terrible. No one deserves to die like that unless they are really, really horrible, I think they were innocents caught up in a terrible time and Nicholas II tried to do the right thing but the libs back then hated him so much, well, you know what happened.

Here is a site I found on Olga: http://www.livadia.org/trw/olga/

I've also had other ancestors from Russia as well, my grandmother's mother was a Russian Jew who had two villages burned out form under her during the pogroms.

[colorado tanker]

Thanks for the interesting reply.

I've heard of a school of thought who believe or believed that Schlieffen never intended his plan to be used, that he meant it as some kind of staff exercise.

It was truly tragic how many lives the British lost in the repeated battles for "wipers."

The more I reflect the more important I think WWI is in our history. Everything changed afterword and most of the trends we see today began as a consequence of the awfulness of that war, distrust of nationalism, distrust of the military, multilateralism, pacifism, etc. Only the clearly perceived need to defeat Hitler's evil was enough to delay these trends for a time. I just read the first volume of Churchill's WWII memoirs and it's amazing how much of the nuttiness that drives we conservatives to distraction in foreign and military affairs was already evident during the interwar years.

[SunkenCiv]

:’) The main reason for the left’s opposition to Hitler was, he attacked Stalin’s USSR. During the period between Hitler’s rise from obscurity to the phony war period, the Commies saw Hitler as the best possible leader for Germany, even as he purged their fellow Commies inside Germany. The Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact dropped a bomb on everyone at the time (at least those interested in politics), as it appeared that Hitler and Stalin were allies (which in fact, they were for a brief time; at first, Stalin reportedly couldn’t believe that Hitler attacked him, and Stalin wasn’t a sentimental guy).

[Aliska]

I don't want to be your relative's judge; of course you wouldn't want to harm him plus he probably had nothing to do with that.

Perhaps I spoke out of turn; all I know about Russia is what I've read which is patchy. I don't know what they make for export (other than oil and possibly wood), but for the tourist industry and probably natives as well they make a lot of beautiful wooden products, usually birch, matriosha (sp?) dolls, bowls, samovars (boy had a senior moment on that), beautiful shawls (I have one my sister gave me), can't think of what all else.

I think you are right in what you said, you know how it is when hate is drummed into you and it takes on a life of its own. Thanks for the link to Olga's scrapbook; I looked at a lot of the photos of her.

I read elsewhere that it was -81F in one part of Siberia today, hard to imagine temps that low.

I picked up several books and artistic items on ebay a few years back. My screen name comes from one of the books which I loaned my son and never got back. It was about a little Russian fox named Aliska which became almost tame and a household pet, they took it to the country for the summer, had to go back to their city home and left it with neighbors to look after it. It disappeared shortly after, kind of sad. They bought the little fox at an outdoor market like our flea markets.

[kalee]

ping

[Nowhere Man]

I have more replies later, but it’s bedtime, I’m off tomorrow but I could get called into work so I’ll just say, “God Save the Tsar and his family.” It was so, so wrong what the Commies did to them.

[gleeaikin]

I think the idea of emmigrating to Russia is nuts. They way Putin is going things could get very bad. Then there is the climate. If you are not from the upper midwest, you cannot even begin to imagine how unpleasant summer and winter can be. Four years in Iowa was enough for me.

[Aliska]

I think the idea of emmigrating to Russia is nuts.

Probably. But things could get bad here, too. Everything in Russia would be harsher and more inefficient but they have so much more room than we do. Whole small towns nearly empty. Guess we have some of that, too. Their people are resilient.

Yes, winter is bad in the midwest and probably worse in Russia. Further north and it is even worse here, I mean awful. We at least get some sun and thaws now and then. I'm stubbornly resisting all appeals to go to CA w/family and/or FL. No way, doesn't appeal to me. I refuse to go anywhere where you have to have ac to survive the summers w/o it. Also CA I had my fill of that when I was young, and it has changed since then.

If I were younger and adverturesome like I once was with skills I now have, I'd like to at least visit off the beaten path places there if they allowed it.

[gleeaikin]

“building the Trans-Siberian railway was more about projecting European Russia to the Pacific russia...?”

Don’t forget the Russian Japanese war in 1906(date?) which must have been a humiliating defeat for a big country by that upstart Japan. However, you are probably right about the difficulty of shipping grain from the east.

[gleeaikin]

“Yes, winter is bad in the midwest and probably worse in Russia.”

Yes, and the summers from what I saw in Iowa can be bad too. My first summer there we had a solid week of 106 to 107 daytime temps, with nightime lows of 93. No AC or fan either. Have son in Miami, after several one and two week trips there my husband and my reactions after about 4 days was always “Ho, hum another perfect, sunny BORING day in paradise.” I find the mid Atlantic area about right. Mostly not too hot or cold, and plenty of Spring and Fall.

[dfwgator]

It’s like I’ve said, Putin doesn’t want to restore the old Soviet Union, he wants to restore the old Russian Empire.

[Aliska]

We haven't had temps like that for a long time, and it's really bad when the humidity is high even when it is not nearly that hot. At least it doesn't usually go on longer than about 10 days max whereas in the south and Texas, it sounds like it goes on for weeks. Sometimes a rain is welcome, but sometimes it makes things worse with the humidity.

Sorry you had such a bad time of it during your visit, makes you not want to go back. It sounds like you live when the temps aren't so extreme now which would be nice.

The heat never fazed me when I was growing up; I'd be out doing sports or active things, played 18 holes of golf, we walked back then, no matter how hot it was, can't handle it any more. This summer was bad when we had a storm and I had tons of tree branches to cut up; luckily it wasn't super hot or I'd work in the evening when it cooled down a bit. One summer that happened, the heat shot up, and a fellow came along and I paid him to clean it all up and haul it away, don't think I could have handled that by myself.

It brings us back to the lead story. I read about their suffering in the Ipatiev house. The ventilation was poor, and the empress suffered from a heart condition, probably made the whole family's suffering worse. I don't know how hot and humid it gets there but could be similar to the midwest.

Even in captivity, the czar kept to a work regimen, walked, chopped wood, kept busy while all the time being strength for the family.

[SunkenCiv]

:’) Six of one...

Putin’s stated that the fall of the Soviet Union was one of the greatest disasters in history.

[colorado tanker]

and Stalin wasn’t a sentimental guy

You have a gift for understatement! :-))

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks. ;’) My favorite line (a stolen one of course) in such a context is, “the Elephant Man had a little puffiness around the eyes.” ;’D

[Nowhere Man]

I don't want to be your relative's judge; of course you wouldn't want to harm him plus he probably had nothing to do with that.

Well, most likely not although I wondered what his leanings would be if he had to make the call with the Royal Family. I'm afraid in my thought experiment of going back in time with my buddies to save them, we would be at odds, I would give every advantage not to harm him but I'm afraid his forces and mine would be fighting against each other. I guess like all civil wars, you have relatives on both sides.

Perhaps I spoke out of turn; all I know about Russia is what I've read which is patchy. I don't know what they make for export (other than oil and possibly wood), but for the tourist industry and probably natives as well they make a lot of beautiful wooden products, usually birch, matriosha (sp?) dolls, bowls, samovars (boy had a senior moment on that), beautiful shawls (I have one my sister gave me), can't think of what all else.

You did not speak out of turn, I would need to know more before I would emigrate. I have no plans or wishes to do so, but again if I was, I would need to know more. During the Communist era, the Soviets did make interesting looking radios and TVs and even calculators, I would dearly love to get my hands on some of those. They also made their own copies of popular personal computers then like their "Agatha" (Agat), an Apple ][+ or //e clone plus their own systems. I'm kind of surprised yet kind of fascinated they even had their own computer geek subculture like we did in the 1980's. There was one article in their "Radio" (radio/electronic) magazine where you can build your own computer, much like our TRS-80 from Radio Shack plus one where you can use a calculator to control a toy tank. The Russians are very smart people, they can do a lot with what little they have. I'm trying to copy a do it yourself TV antenna from "Radio" Magazine do I can use it to get more hi-def stations.

I think you are right in what you said, you know how it is when hate is drummed into you and it takes on a life of its own. Thanks for the link to Olga's scrapbook; I looked at a lot of the photos of her.

Yeah, unlike some royal families, the guys were good looking and the ladies were drop dead gorgeous. I really like Maria and Olga, I would be proud to escort any of them to a dance or have then sit by me in a black 1984 Buick Grand National T-Top turbo, or any car, pop in some "Duran Duran" or "Foreigner" in the cassette player and cruise around Pittsburgh. B-D From what I have read, they were very kind, loved animals and Alexi himself had empathy for people, well they all did. Shame he had hemophilia, I'd like to see him as grown up.

I read elsewhere that it was -81F in one part of Siberia today, hard to imagine temps that low.

Yeah, it gets bitter cold there. Come to think of it, some of the cars they mad for the Communist bigshots over there had a 24 volt ignition system to give them the extra power to start in cold weather.

I picked up several books and artistic items on ebay a few years back. My screen name comes from one of the books which I loaned my son and never got back. It was about a little Russian fox named Aliska which became almost tame and a household pet, they took it to the country for the summer, had to go back to their city home and left it with neighbors to look after it. It disappeared shortly after, kind of sad. They bought the little fox at an outdoor market like our flea markets.

That would be cool to see, you can find interesting stuff like that at flea markets, thrift stores and so on.

[Niuhuru]

Do you have the link?

[Niuhuru]

They made a mistake by keeping Alexis’ condition a secret. IF the public had understood then they wouldn’t have thought so badly of the Tsarina about Rasputin.

When I really think about it, they could have done a lot of good for the Imperial couple if they had known.

[Niuhuru]

I think it was 1905.