Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Australia navy in breast op row
BBC ^ | Sunday, 16 September 2007, | n/a

Posted on 09/16/2007 6:37:18 PM PDT by fishhound

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-107 last
To: arbooz

101 posted on 09/17/2007 2:55:07 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Oh, Geesh, not THIS crap AGAIN?!?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: GreenLanternCorps
It’s a little late, but I’m pinging FR’s resident Royal Australian Navy veteran for his thoughts on this important national defense issue.

It's a storm in a D-cup (sorry, couldn't resist).

My view, for what it is worth, is there is little wrong with this - although I can understand why some peoples initial reaction would be one of incredulity.

But the fact is that the Royal Australian Navy (indeed the entire Australian Defence Force) is a highly professional and proficient organisation which relies on attracting the best possible recruits, and on retaining people once quite a lot of money has been spent training them to maintain that high quality. Doing this means offering and delivering real benefits to those who have chosen to serve their country in a military capacity.

And that includes medical benefits. Even if these operations, as indicated, cost tens of thousands of dollars, that is cheap if it lead to the retention of a sailor who might have otherwise left the service - it's cost a lot more to recruit and train another sailor even up to Leading Seaman standard (probably even to Able Seaman standard).

Even if it's not that serious, the fact is, this type of money is worth spending even if it just improves a sailors performance.

And then there are other factors to consider. The Australian Defence Force (Thank God, and touch wood) doesn't currently have to deal with a lot of casualties - but we do have to maintain the infrastructure that would be needed if that ever suddenly changed. In other words, we have medical resources (and in this, I would include mental health resources) sitting around without that much to do.

It is both appropriate and useful in terms of maintaining proficiency and ensuring procedures work as they should, for these people to be doing something. It is also appropriate for the Navy to be developing and maintaining relationships with civilian practitioners, it may need to utilise in the future.

The relationship the Navy's medical bureaucracy develops with a cosmetic surgeon now, and the hospitals they work in may be very useful in the future, when due to an accident, or combat, etc, we have people who need reconstructive surgery.

During my time in the Navy, I had cosmetic dentistry paid for by the Navy. I had counselling for work related stress. Were either of those things strictly necessary? No, not in my case - but they did help me. And they helped me to better discharge my duties. When you find yourself on a semi-diplomatic posting to London, where you are sometimes finding yourself having to speak up for the Royal Australian Navy to Royal Navy officers, the last thing you need is to feel self conscious about your appearance. Maybe that seems petty to some people - in fact, I admit, I'm rather embarassed to admit something so minor worried me. But it did - and fixing things helped me to do my job better. It might have been a fault in me - but it was in the interests of the Navy, and my country to correct it.

102 posted on 09/18/2007 2:10:20 AM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: naturalman1975

Thank You for this thoughtful post. I think that if a person in a civilian job can obtain these procedures and help, then it follows that a nation’s military is keeping up with present times in looking after it’s people and thier needs also. Another check in the pro column for a military career or enlistment choice.


103 posted on 09/18/2007 10:42:29 PM PDT by fishhound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: naturalman1975
During my time in the Navy, I had cosmetic dentistry paid for by the Navy.

If it was truly cosmetic, a pre-existing condition not caused by your service, and not needed to preserve the integrity of the teeth - then I'm sorry, I think that's a personal expense that you should have paid.

If the teeth were causing you self-esteem issues, then perhaps I would accept the argument that the Navy should have doubled the amount they were willing to pay for counseling (either about why the tooth problem was so important to you, or why it wasn't higher on your personal spending priority list). I would also accept the argument that the Navy should have allowed/encouraged you to engage in activities to earn extra funds to pay for the cosmetic dentistry yourself.

I know some sailors who would feel more 'empowered' if they owned a Porsche; perhaps the Navy will start prescribing those, too. You might find this to be an absurd argument - but so is any argument I could muster for a offering a boob job. The Navy should be telling sailors, 'These are the teeth and the boobs (and the car) you came in with' - perhaps the Navy should do a better job of psychological screening, so that people who have deep-seated issues about such things can have those identified PRIOR to entering a stressful work environment.

I'm sure this will be construed as a gross lack of compassion on my part - but no worries, I'm over it.
104 posted on 09/23/2007 6:45:51 AM PDT by beezdotcom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: beezdotcom
You're entitled to your opinion. But I do think the treatment was justified.

The Navy accepted me as a Cadet Midshipman at 16, five years short of my majority (21 in those days). In so doing, they accepted a degree of responsibility for my care - this is something of an alien concept in an era when minors are no longer recruited in that way, but in the RAN, boys were accepted for officer training up until around 1980, and for training as sailors until 1986, and it's still part of the culture. Strictly speaking they should have dealt with my dental care while I was still a boy, but it got missed.

I specialised in carrier operations, and that was intended to be my long term career path. In that capacity, my teeth wouldn't have mattered. But then they decommissioned our only carrier, and the newly elected Labor government cancelled the replacement. The Navy had to find something else for me to do, or waste a ten year investment in my training.

It was in that context that I found myself posted to London to liaise with the RN.

Incidentally, I would have paid for the dental work myself, but getting it done through the Navy got it done much faster - within a couple of days, rather than within a couple of weeks. And it was done by Naval dentists who would have just been sitting around doing nothing.

I happen to agree that the RAN should do a better job on psychological screening than it does, but it is an imperfect science at best - and once these people are in, is it better to write off tens of thousands of dollars of taxpayers money spent training a sailor (hundreds of thousands for a senior sailor) or to spend a little extra to keep them in? For me, the arithmetic is pretty simple.

I've never heard of anybody getting a Porsche - but the RAN has paid cash bonuses of something like $50,000 to keep some people from leaving the Navy. You have to have the people to do the jobs, and that is getting harder and harder all the time. You don't want to lose people you can easily keep.

105 posted on 09/23/2007 7:12:31 AM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 104 | View Replies]

To: fishhound
But wouldn't this make two very, very sensitive areas more easily a disabling target in a combat situation?

106 posted on 09/23/2007 7:16:14 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: naturalman1975
I've never heard of anybody getting a Porsche - but the RAN has paid cash bonuses of something like $50,000 to keep some people from leaving the Navy.

I still think that a cash bonus makes more sense than paying directly for elective cosmetic work. In fact, it's probably more therapeutic, because then it forces a person to prioritize and decide what's REALLY important.
107 posted on 09/23/2007 1:58:45 PM PDT by beezdotcom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-107 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson