Posted on 08/28/2007 2:00:21 PM PDT by Sopater
Evolutionary psychology might be able to explain why human beings have a tendency to act this way.
But that's just a description of human behavioral patterns and they developed. It's not a moral prescription. It doesn't follow from the notion that evolution gave us altruistic and compassionate tendencies that we ought to be altruistic or compassionate.
Evolution, like all natural sciences, is only descriptive. It is not, and can never be, prescriptive.
All it means is that the practice of science needs to be placed within strict ethical boundaries.
“If you wish to argue in the realm of science, you need to use scientific methods. Belief is not evidence.”
I’m not arguing in the realm of science (or what is or isn’t scientific) nor have I tried; You keep dumping everything into your science box and if it doesn’t fit then it’s not true.
How does science explain The Resurrection of Christ? Or do you think it’s not possible?
This isn't even true, some embraced it but most didn't.
What I find far more disturbing are those people who embrace eugenics and slavery TODAY.
Who would that be?
I'm not aware of any FReepers who support slavery, but there are many that embrace eugenics.
Of the five major threads of the concept of evolution, this would be Spencerian rather than Darwinian.
That is historiological and the major modern application of the concept of evolution. It has nothing to do with Darwinianism.
How does science explain The Resurrection of Christ? Or do you think it’s not possible?
That is a religious belief.
However, when someone, acting upon religious belief, states that, for example, there was a global flood about seven miles deep about 4350 years ago, science can check to see if that is supported by scientific evidence. The global flood claim is not supported by scientific evidence. Believers will still believe in the flood, but unless they produce scientific evidence scientists will not be persuaded.
How does science explain The Resurrection of Christ? Or do you think it’s not possible?
“That is a religious belief.”
No, it’s not a belief. It’s a fact. It was witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. And just because it’s not contained in a book that has “Science” on it doesn’t mean it’s not true.
You -- This isn't even true, some embraced it but most didn't.
Actually, if you review the history of the eugenics movement, you'll find that clerical ties and endorsements lent great credibility to the movement and had a significant impact on its propagation. A great many influential clergy zealously preached the eugenics party line.
As a small sample in America, Kenneth C. MacArthur, who was pastor of the Federated Church in Sterling Massachusetts and a lecturer at Andover Newton Seminary, was also a spokesman for the "American Eugenics Society" (yes, there was such a thing) and an advocate for what was then referred to as the "Social Gospel."
Harry F. Ward, a professor of Christian ethics at Union Theological Seminary and a founder of the Methodist Federation for Social Service, encouraged Christians in his publications to help remove "the causes that produce the weak," preaching a consistent eugenic line against coddling the unfit.
Walter Taylor Sumner, dean of the Protestant Episcopal Cathedral of Saints Peter and Paul in Chicago, instituted a system of inspection for prospective couples to ensure that they were "normal physically and mentally."
John Haynes Holmes, who was Unitarian minister of New York’s Church of the Messiah, encouraged his fellow members of the Liberal Ministers’ Association of New York "to perform nothing but health marriages."
Charles Davenport (who was the son of a New York Congregationalist minister), with funding from Andrew Carnegie, had the American Eugenics Society sponsor contests for sermons on "better breeding," held "Fitter Family" competitions, and encouraged local efforts to sterilize the unfit. Indeed, it was the general theme of the American Eugenics Society that eugenic responsibility was a personal, religious, and civic matter to be addressed in the home, the parish, and the courthouse.
(On a side note, particularly fascinating were the county fair eugenics booths, with signs asking why pedigree was so carefully attended to in livestock but not in children.)
Galton himself used a religious and specifically Christian gloss in his arguments, with a fine example being this paper delivered to the Sociological Society of London in 1905.
Eugenics was a pernicious bastardization of evolutionary principals. Oddly enough, it was, I believe, the result of precisely the kind of flaccid and non-rigorous reasoning employed by anti-evolutionists today, wherein gross generalizations and deliberate misrepresentations are touted to the scientifically ignorant on the basis of "gut feelings" and easily manipulated "common sense." And there is, as well, the curious common denominator of religious fervor between the specious reasoning then and the specious reasoning now.
Somehow, I appear to have inserted a bad (or inconsistent) link to Galton’s 1905 paper.
The link in full is —
http://galton.org/galton/galton/essays/1900-1911/galton-1905-am-journ-soc-studies-eugenics.htm
Granted, many did support it, but most didn't.
Eugenics was a pernicious bastardization of evolutionary principals. Oddly enough, it was, I believe, the result of precisely the kind of flaccid and non-rigorous reasoning employed by anti-evolutionists today, wherein gross generalizations and deliberate misrepresentations are touted to the scientifically ignorant on the basis of "gut feelings" and easily manipulated "common sense." And there is, as well, the curious common denominator of religious fervor between the specious reasoning then and the specious reasoning now.
I'm not quite sure what point your are trying to make other than to make the claim that evolutionists do not necessarily support eugenics (though many do). I have not debated evolution on FR for a long time, I realized a long time ago that neither side was going to change the other's mind. What I am talking about is the dark side of Darwinism that many evolutionists are either unaware of or simply hope will go unnoticed. The fact that Galton used Christian rhetoric in his writings and speeches doesn't make him a Christian any more than it made Hitler a Christian when he employed the same ideals several decades later.
You don’t get it. All creation stories/theories carry an inherent philosophy that cannot be separated out. The creation theory/story can carry a human life honoring philosophy, or a philosophy that human life is worthless or very near worthless. Evolution carries a morally degenerate philosophy of the near worthlessness of individual human life that shows through to the public even with the most dry explanation.
If Evolution proponents are really serious about public acceptance, then they have to acknowledge this philosophical defect to their theory.
What about:
If you think it’s not science, it can’t be true. It’s in your comments over and over and over.....
If our beliefs don’t fit into your box of science so what. If your science can’t explain certain things, that means they are false, is that it?
and
How does science explain The Resurrection of Christ? Or do you think it’s not possible?
You just knee jerked to the Flood again, your default change the subject reaction.
Stop trolling. It’s very unbecoming.
Says who?
Evolution carries a morally degenerate philosophy of the near worthlessness of individual human
Nonsense.
No.
Making unsupported assertions won't help your credibility problem.
If you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you. Until you support it with something, the only rational response is denial.
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