Hell on Earth: The never before seen colour photographs of the bloody battle of Passchendaele

Daily Mail ^ | 7/12/07 | Victoria Moore

[the OlLine Rebel]

Wow, thanks for the thread!

What a horrible, horrible war. I really don’t know of any worse war, certainly in modern times. The only good thing about it was the different sides still had alot of civility to each other.

[the OlLine Rebel]

OMG! You mean this is more of a “photographic re-enactment”?

[the OlLine Rebel]

It was around this time that Repubs and Dems were flipping sides. I think WWI was the last gasp of Dems really having the moral authority.

[dfwgator]

What a horrible, horrible war. I really don’t know of any worse war, certainly in modern times.

In terms of the men fighting the war it was the worst war.

But for the non-fighting civilians, WWII was much, much worse.

[the OlLine Rebel]

See if you can find WWI stuff on eBay. I know you can. Just maybe not exact things as you have.

[the OlLine Rebel]

WWI, I think, was MUCH more a conflict of not just tactics, but technologies of totally different types.

In the Am Civil War, they could’ve used repeating rifles but just kept on with single-shot percussion muskets. That’s just an example.

Not that I’m any expert, just a casual observer. ;-)

[the OlLine Rebel]

Yes, I can see that.

But in terms not only of the men directly involved, but WHY they were involved, it is most horrible. What was the real point of this war? Nothing. It was senseless.

[dfwgator]

Well I sense that it was just a bunch of things that accumulated over the years, like kindling building up.

Eventually some spark was going to go off and light the thing up. The “Old Order” of Europe in its last gasp to stay relevant. I often wonder how different the world would have been today if not for WWI. But some conflict was inevitable.

[stainlessbanner]

ping

[the OlLine Rebel]

There was a great article in the American Heritage magazine about it a decade ago or so. Another was pretty good, too. I still have them somewhere. 1 of them was “how we lost our innocence from WWI”. It was really good.

[R. Scott]

In the Am Civil War, they could’ve used repeating rifles but just kept on with single-shot percussion muskets. That’s just an example.

Yes, but the muzzleloaders were rifled and had an effective range of 200-300 yards, not 50 yards. A few individual units had Spencer repeating rifles at their own expense. Cannon had moved on from firing only solid and grape shot to firing explosive shells with a much greater range and accuracy. Both these made a very great difference when troops were lined up shoulder to shoulder and walking at you from several hundred yards away. In the early days of the 19th Century charging troops would only have to face a couple volleys before being on you. By the American War they faced nearly continual accurate fire the whole time. Check out Pickets Charge, Fredericksburg, Antietam ...
The only reason the Union didn’t adapt repeating rifles earlier was that the Union lacked the transport necessary to carry the necessary amount of ammo these would have fired up. The man in charge of Union ordinance was dead set against them because he thought troops would needlessly waste ammo. Lincoln himself had to intervene to get their procurement.

[DesScorp]

“Can you imagine what the Left today would have said back then?”

Actually, the Left called that war a war of capitalist exploitation too. They have a long history of treason. You can argue whether or not the US should have been in it, but you can always trust the Left to put an insane Marxist spin on anything.

[Spiff]

Notice the cloned fenceline that covered up the destroyed tank in the obvious and amateur photoshop. Good catch.

[mware]

Sad that they felt the need to photo shop that photo.

It was horrible enough without the need to do that.

[mware]

Did the Daily Mail find out that they got snookered on that photo???

[oh8eleven]

This documentary has been on cable the last few weeks. Great show ... Digging Up The Trenches

"Under the guidance of military historian Peter Barton, a team of archaeologists reveal in extraordinary detail the evolution of trench warfare - painting a vivid picture of the lives and deaths of the men who fought on each side of the Ypres Salient."

[DesScorp]

Possibly the most miserable battlefield in all of human history, and worthy of the name “no man’s land”.

[dfwgator]

Sad that they felt the need to photo shop that photo. It was horrible enough without the need to do that.

Right away when I saw that photo, my first thought was that something doesn't look right.

[Fred Nerks]

Most historians agree that Princip was a member of Young Bosnia, but logistical connections to the Black Hand (Црна рука/Crna ruka) are numerous; the latter group, suffice it to say, was at least somewhat accountable for coordination, training, and/or supplying weapons related to the forthcoming assassination attempt on Franz Ferdinand (Dennis Hupchick, The Balkans: From Constantinople to Communism (New York: MacMillan, 2004), 318.). The Young Bosnia movement was a group made up of Serbs, Croats, and Bosnian Muslims, committed to the independence of the South Slavic peoples from Austria-Hungary.

In February 1912, he took part in protest demonstrations against the Sarajevo authorities for which he was expelled from school. Following his expulsion, he went to Belgrade. While crossing the border, he made a point of kissing the soil of Serbia. In Belgrade, he sought to gain admission to the First Belgrade Gymnasium but failed the entrance exam.

In 1912, Serbia was abuzz with mobilization for the First Balkan War. Princip planned to join the komite, irregular Serbian guerrilla forces under Serbian Major Vojislav Tankosic which had fought in Macedonia against Ottoman units. Tankosic was a member of the central committee of the secret society Unification or Death (Ujedinjenje ili Smrt). Princip, however, was rejected by the komite in Belgrade because of his small physical stature. He then went to Prokuplje in Southern Serbia where he sought a personal interview with Tankosić. Tankosić, however, rejected Princip for being "too small and too weak." He was determined to compensate for his lack of physical stature and the underestimation of his abilities that he was subjected to. Dedijer argued that his rejection was "one of the primary personal motives which pushed him to do something exceptionally brave in order to prove to others that he was their equal."

[edit] Assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand

[edit] Background On June 28, 1914 Gavrilo Princip participated in the assassination in Sarajevo. General Oskar Potiorek, Governor of the Austrian provinces of Bosnia-Herzegovina had invited Franz Ferdinand and Countess Sophie to watch his troops on manoeuvers. Franz Ferdinand knew that the visit would be dangerous, knowing his uncle, Emperor Franz Josef, had been the subject of an assassination attempt by the Black Hand in 1911.

[edit] Timeline Just before 10 o'clock on Sunday, the royal couple arrived in Sarajevo by train. In the front car was Fehim Čurčić, the Mayor of Sarajevo and Dr. Gerde, the city's Commissioner of Police. Franz Ferdinand and Sophie were in the second car with Oskar Potiorek and Count von Harrach. The car's top was rolled back in order to allow the crowds a good view of its occupants.

The seven members of the group lined the route. They were spaced out along the Appel Quay, each one with instructions to try to kill Franz Ferdinand when the royal car reached his position. The first conspirator on the route to see the royal car was Muhamed Mehmedbašić. Standing by the Austro-Hungarian Bank, Mehmedbašić lost his nerve and allowed the car pass without taking action. Mehmedbašić later said that a policeman was standing behind him and feared he would be arrested before he had a chance to throw his bomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

[Fred Nerks]

Contrary to common belief, Princip was not a member of the Black Hand, but was a member of the group Young Bosnia (Mlada Bosna), which he joined in 1911. The Young Bosnia Movement was a group made up of Serbs, Croats, and Bosnian Muslims, committed to achieving independence for Bosnia.

http://www.answers.com/topic/gavrilo-princip