Gwynn, Ripken elected to Hall of Fame (McGwire isn't)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof07/news/story?id=2725461 ^

[raptor29]

So Ladewski won't be voting for Greg Maddux, that obvious juicehead!!! What a bozo that guy is. Hell, Ripken probably set the consecutive games streak because he WASN'T on steroids, so his body didn't break down like many of the others who did juice. Ladewski-Knucklehead.

[SpringheelJack]

Jackson had a big run in those games the Sox were playing to win; in the fixed games, though, he performed weakly with runners in scoring position, and apparently his fielding was slow and sometimes oddly positioned, and once he even threw to the wrong base.

[misterrob]

No Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Roger Clemmens, Griffey Jr, Mariano Rivera, etc....

[GB]

Rice was a p***k with the media for his whole career ... not just uncooperative like Eddie Murray or Steve Carlton, who both got into the HoF, but an out and out p***k ... and guess who gets to vote on the HoF? Plus even though I would absolutely vote for him if I had a vote, I think he suffers because he did not have an extraordinarily long career (done at 36), he faded quickly in his last few years and his career stats are actually a bit short of automatic HoF consideration. He's actually in about the same boat as Dale Murphy, although Rice had more R, RBI and a higher batting average (Murphy finished with more home runs).

Honestly, though, if I did have a vote, Goose Gossage would be higher on my priority list than Rice.

[GB]

Check the box scores and see how many triples the Reds hit to left field (where Jackson played) during that series. Then sit there and think how hard it is to triple to left field.

[misterrob]

Rice didn't get alont with the media but in Boston a lot of them suck. He was a team leader and stood up for his guys. I think the drop off after 86 really hurt him but if he had been a cheater then he would have hit more homers than he did and that seems to matter to people.

[GB]

He's also hurt by the strength of the competition he's been up against ... since Rice became eligible, the folks who have gotten in are Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, Robin Yount, Rollie Fingers, Tony Perez, Dave Winfield, Kirby Puckett, Nolan Ryan, George Brett, Carlton Fisk, Ozzie Smith, Eddie Murray, Gary Carter, Paul Molitor, Dennis Eckersley, Wade Boggs and Ryne Sandberg. That's a tough field. If he had gotten to 2,500 hits at least, 400 homers, .300 batting average, I think he'd be in. He's a little short of all those.

[Mike Bates]

Does this mean the Dave Clark 5 didn't make it? Aargh!

[Boston Blackie]

As I stated earlier...its a damn shame he had to get involved in "The Fix." A great ballplayer threw away his career.

[mpreston]

Sure he looked bad in front of the Senate Hearings, but is that enough to keep him out?

Two issues for me. 1) When he declined to answer under oath 2) look at McGuire today vs. when he played. He is much smaller. Wonder why . . .

In the spirit of the St. Louis Cardinals and for the integrity of the game he should never be elected to the HOF.

[OldFriend]

sports media hacks have to exercise their power!

[CollegeRepublican]

Are there still voters out there who feel that nobody should be elected in their first year of eligibility?

Yes. I heard one guy on the radio this morning that said he will make sure that no one gets his vote the first time around. If Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, and Ty Cobb were not unanimous, he says no one should be.

[OldFriend]

He looked bad because that's how the media portrayed McGwire. They focussed on the family whose son used steroids and died. They transferred the death of their son onto Mark.

Ridiculous standard.

[AmishDude]

Who were the 8 jerks?

[raccoonradio]

Ironically enough Rice is now part of the media now himself.
With NESN.

>>Jim Rice is a Red Sox studio analyst before select Boston Red Sox games on Olympia Sports presents The Boston Globe Pre-Game Report, NESN's one-hour Boston Red Sox pre-game show. After the game, Rice delivers his expert analysis and game commentary on W.B. Mason Extra Innings and Granite City Extra Innings Extra, NESN's popular post-game shows.

[Tallguy]

Was MM using steroids - probably, are his records tainted - Probably. But last I heard you were INNOCENT until proven guilty -- and in that case PROBABLY does not cut it.

You are correct in everything you say, but this isn't a court of law. I would propose that Big Mac and others of this era be made provisional members of the HOF. If it is legally proved that they used steroids, out they go. As things stand I don't think there is any mechanism for throwing a member of the HOF out, but there should be.

The unseemly part about all this is that McGwire is being made the fall-guy for the steroid era.

[Tallguy]

I suspect that McGwire is paying the tab for Barry Bonds. Bonds gets into the HOF while McGwire gets exiled. McGwire made himself a target with his congressional testimony. That's it in a nutshell.

[GB]

ESPN had a bit on this the other day, where they polled voters to see how many would vote for McGwire on the first go-around. It came out about like the actual percentage. However, they also asked how many people would vote for Bonds on the first go-around as well. The figure was 50 percent. That doesn't get him in. So don't hang Barry's plaque just yet.

[Tallguy]

. However, they also asked how many people would vote for Bonds on the first go-around as well. The figure was 50 percent. That doesn't get him in. So don't hang Barry's plaque just yet.

That's great! I hadn't heard that!

My honest assessment is that most of the stats of this era will have to be discounted. Mac ended with 583 HR's, IIRC. If you figure his big stat years (50+ HRS) were drug induced and inflated his numbers 20% then he has an extra 80 to 100 career dingers. Deduct that & he's a borderline 500 HR guy. Maybe not HOF material.

Bonds, OTOH, was a sure-fire HOF member before he started juicing. He was a 5-tool player that would have made it regardless. Mac was more 1-dimensional.

[foreverfree]

Steve Garvey only got 21%. This was his last year on the writers ballot. Didn't he get 60% in a previous year, which would make him eligible through the Vets Cmte.?

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