Fumbles, missteps hindered search. On a hunch, local pilot found mother, kids alive.

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 12/10/2006 | Jaxon Van Derbeken, Peter Fimrite

[woodbutcher]

I am the one that used the 911 term because all I knew was that she was taking information, so I thought that.

Not surfer's fault.

As for all of the other noise you make, you totally miss the point.

The point is that there will always be people that get lost. Some of them because they are not as smart as you are. Some because they are old and confused. Some because they crashed an airplane.

Even the most knowledgeable can break a leg a ways from camp.

So don't ever be so smug as to think you can handle any emergency.

So given that this scene will repeat over and over....you can google Oregon SAR budget, and you will be amazed at the numbers. You will also be amazed that they keep records on who was rescued, by county, by sex, by age, etc., and you will be even more amazed to find that Oregon residents are something like 95% of the people that have to be rescued.

If you find the right one, you will get about 75 pages of information.

So given all of that, it is valuable to look at how this rescue could have gone better. It does no good to say no one should get lost if they are as smart as you are.

They are going to get lost and it is going to happen over and over. So SAR needs to learn from every single operation.

In spite of your rant that they can do no wrong, I do suspect that many in SAR are looking at their method of checking out tips.

I also hope the map people are rethinking their maps and that the hotel/lodge associations are thinking about how they talk to new guests.

It still remains that visitors are a small percentage of the problem but just one life is worth many times the effort.

By the way, had you done your homework and gone through the thread, you would have seen the post where surfer went through some of the areas he has lived in. His reply to you was modest. He has lived in areas that are about as unforgiving as the poles.

And as for your sneer about the dangers of FL, you have to see those swamps to appreciate them. There are critters in there that you really don't want to spend a night with. They have everything you have except Moose, plus snakes you would not believe, scorpions, spiders, ants that eat you, not to mention the 'gators. There are places in FL where you would not last one night. Something would eat you. It is not just the occasional panther, it is the hundreds of 'gators, snakes, fire ants, etc.

Now that said, I am done with trying to get you to think.

[Locomotive Breath]

I don't know if anyone posted this yet but it gives a really clear illustration of the topography and the paths taken by Kim and his family.

http://www.layoutscene.com/james-kim-path/index.html

Unfortunately most of the pictures are using the original incorrect location of the Kim family car.

[surfer]

Thanks LB...that post is helpful and has been posted...but I think posting it again is a great idea.

Paula Zahn has coverage on this issue in a special report tonight at 8pm on CNN.

Make sure you check out the threads on the missing Oregon climbers on Mount Hood - news should be coming soon...

as well as the very sad story of the missing parents in South Carolina!!!

[Mjaye]

The same thing could have happened to me or any number of hunters/fisherman from here and could have survived a week or more up there fairly easily. <<<<<

You keep saying this, are you not aware that HE HAD SURVIVED FOR A WEEK before he left the vehicle? And probably a few more days after that? By your logic, he must have done pretty well to have at least survived for the same period of time as the "any number of hunters/fishermen from here" that you cite.

As for the woman coordinating Emergency Services, it is reasonable to expect that she would triage the available info and have an important clue coming from a local with intimate knowledge of the area checked further. I've coordinated emergencies of a different nature, and those are exactly the types of tips that one wants; locals who have seen something they know to be out of the ordinary.

[surfer]

Hi Mjaye,

We have all been trying to explain to Bray how important it is to read the fine print. He reads what he wants and then begins to spew his outrageous responses.

Once again he missed it...they were out there almost two weeks with an infant...btw.

[woodbutcher]

That guy never lets a fact get in the way of his conclusions.

Your tagline is meant for him.

I have decided to waste no more time.

When you find out a battery has a dead cell, quit trying to charge it.

[txdoda]

Paula Zahn has coverage on this issue in a special report tonight at 8pm on CNN.

Wow what a shame the feds can't *find* a few extra bucks to CLEARLY mark their land/roads they maintain.....

At least the 'locals' try to help with spray paint.

[Mjaye]

I only got to see part of Paula Zahn's show, it's on at 5pm on the Left Coast, and that's an hour where I'm certain to have numerous interruptions. Wish it was repeated later, but I didn't see mention of it on the Dish program guide. What I saw of it looked pretty interesting, lots of the same ground but a few new faces and info.

[Mjaye]

That guy never lets a fact get in the way of his conclusions...Your tagline is meant for him.<<<<<<<<<<<<

I actually love a good debate on FR, but expect the person on the other side to have at least gotten up to speed on the issue at hand.

It's like what always happens to me at restaurants: If I"m by myself, I try to read the paper, but can't help but overhear people talking all around me at times. I always get seated next to some uninformed group that is loudly attempting to discuss an issue they know nothing about, one that we have examined from every angle on FR. It's like being surrounded by Emily Latella in stereo. Makes one want to stand up and say "NO, you dingbats, what really happened was _____________!" But that would be uncouth, and I try to be couth in restaurants.

[Mjaye]

Once again he missed it...they were out there almost two weeks with an infant...btw.<<<<<<

Indeed they were, I was thinking of the time between when they got stuck and when he left to get help. I probably counted wrong...! I love what Woodbutcher pointed out, it's the locals who keep getting lost out there, not by any means just gringo travelers from CA.

[txdoda]

I only got to see part of Paula Zahn's show,

It's pretty good.....& it's a lot easier to see how wrong turns were made, esp. in snow.

The only sign (in the middle of the fork) gives only mileage to the coast (no arrows).......locals have spay painted on the road the right fork to the coast, but that would be hard to see in snow.

Sad too, there used to be a 'dead end' sign to the left, but it was vandalized, & never replaced.

Also sad, James drove by the locked gate to Lodge on this road, but apparently neither he or Katie saw it......:o(

[woodbutcher]

I know that feeling!

Especially the ones that are telling their companions about how great they are at:

Flying

Breaking horses

Dead eye shot.

On and on.

[txdoda]

Sad too, there used to be a 'dead end' sign to the left,

Oops, I guess the 'dead end' road (WITHOUT the sign) would have gone to the right.

[Mjaye]

I saw that video, too. I'm looking for the link. You are right that it would have certainly seemed the road to the right was the main road, IMO.

[Mjaye]

Someone posted a link a few days ago to a amateur video shot by someone headed to the location of the Kim's car after her rescue. It was taken by the passenger from inside as they traveled up to the turn off and when I saw it I said that I would have taken the same spur as it veered off to the right and down hill. It really looked like the prominent road. I hope someone can find that link...<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2083162403303862037

Hope that's the right one.

[saquin]

I'm joining this thread late but I just don't understand why no one has corrected you on this important point yet.

You wrote:
If you do walk out always walk downhill and follow the river to safety. He walked a 16 mile circle on the logging roads...

However if he could have got down to the stream it would have led him to the Rogue which has a well maintained trail and houses w/in 15 miles.

You seem unaware that he did NOT walk a "16 mile circle on the logging roads", that he DID "walk downhill" and attempt to "follow the river to safety". He DID get "down to the stream" which would have led him to the Rogue. It's where he was found dead, in Big Windy Creek not far from the Rogue. Look at the map again here.

[woodbutcher]

Because.

When you find out a battery has a dead cell, you quit wasting time trying to charge it.

[txdoda]

interesting update.........another 'fumble' by the feds.


Gate to road Kims used never locked, BLM says

Federal workers failed to lock the gate that was supposed to block the logging road that led James Kim to his death last week -- a different story than has been told since his death and his family's rescue.

The U.S. Bureau of Land Management was supposed to lock the gate to the spur road, known only as 34-8-36, on Nov. 1. The winter gate is meant to stop people from turning off Bear Camp Road, which cuts through the rugged Siskiyou National Forest to the Oregon Coast.

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/..._12.html#215338

[surfer]

Yes good find...the excuse they gave was they didn't shut the gate because they thought someone might still be up there using the BLM.

However, three weeks later the gate was still unlocked and left open - unbelievable.

[poseiden]

I just spent several weeks in the coast range hunting elk and deer about a hundred miles north on the same latitude. It is sad to see locked gates because of a vandal damaging logging equipment or a city nerd getting stuck on a high mountain pass. Its to bad about the Kim's but this sort of tragedy happens on occasion and those of us who love the challenges of nature shouldn't be denied access to the forest or desert because of one mans mistakes. That gate should never be locked and their needs to be a lot more gates unlocked so I and those like me who like a challenge can get out in the woods more easily and have some fun.
The BLM is definitely not at fault here. Their job is to allow the public to access public BLM land
Count on city nerds to say don't walk barefoot in the grass you might get dirty, or bend a blade, or some one less experienced might follow you with out seeking advice and stub their toe.
I took a technophile for a hike in the woods once and he was like "Wow this is just like virtual reality".