Posted on 11/21/2006 5:49:44 AM PST by TommyDale
Hello?...McFly?...(wraps on your forehead - oh, interesting aside, the guy who played Biff in "Back to the Future" was my pal and Fraternity brother, Tom Wilson)....read the ZOE Group ministries article that Quix posted. I think it may apply to you in a very meaningful way. If you couldn't understand from my post that Paul used different styles of delivery for his message, in addition to the location changes, then there is no reason to discuss this any further with you. You just don't get it, or chose not to, perhaps because of the reasons cited in the Zoe article.
Just as the method of growing a church and organizing the meetings and lessons may differ in our church because we now use the PDC "format," our message, HIS message, remains the same. If we decided to divide up our church members by hair and eye color and chose to meet in the parking lot, rather than the classroom, AND started off the discussion with some interesting anecdotes about life here in the North Country, the Message they got at the end of the day would still be the same as the one they got before we made the changes. Why do you continue to think there is some nefarious, heretical exegesis of scripture going on? This is all method, NOT message!
I guess this is one of those cases where we can agree to disagree. Does it mean we can not be in fellowship? Not at all. If you believe the gospel message and have accepted His precious atonement we are definitely brothers.
Peace Be With You.
What part of the North Country (Oxford)?
Sometimes we need to go back and concentrate on the basics. Paul spoke fervently about the divisions that have plagued the Church since its beginning.
This is a sobering exhortation and admonition from his letters to the Church at Corinth. (Verses 18-25 really hit hard)
1Corinthians 1
1Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord* and ours:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I give thanks to my* God always for you because of the grace of God that has been given you in Christ Jesus, 5for in every way you have been enriched in him, in speech and knowledge of every kind— 6just as the testimony of* Christ has been strengthened among you— 7so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ. 8He will also strengthen you to the end, so that you may be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful; by him you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
10 Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,* by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you should be in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you should be united in the same mind and the same purpose. 11For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters.* 12What I mean is that each of you says, ‘I belong to Paul’, or ‘I belong to Apollos’, or ‘I belong to Cephas’, or ‘I belong to Christ.’ 13Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God* that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16(I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize but to proclaim the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its power.
18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written,‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.’
20Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those who believe. 22For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength.
26 Consider your own call, brothers and sisters:* not many of you were wise by human standards,* not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28God chose what is low and despised in the world, things that are not, to reduce to nothing things that are, 29so that no one* might boast in the presence of God. 30He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31in order that, as it is written, ‘Let the one who boasts, boast in* the Lord.’
Excellent points.
Thanks.
LOL! Good logic!
You are not being truthful here and you know it. This is not calling Rick Warren any sort of evil character, it is about exposing his false doctrine. There is a higher standard for ministers (shepherds) who lead the flock astray. He will be judged on that later.
Yes ministers are held to higher standards.
I have a very difficult time understanding why anyone would deny that Rick Warren has been castigated as . . . several varieties of unChristian, destructive, charlatan etc. etc. etc. types of a character in this thread and in all the Rick Warren bashing threads. It's denial of that--which would strike me as untruthful.
His teachings have caused destruction in may churches. What part of that do you not understand? See the article from the Front Page of the Wall Street Journal:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-religion/1695959/posts
I don't claim to have the capacity to help everyone to understand and construe reality as I do.
I think my words have been pretty clear, though.
If I understand the last post, it sounds like it's back to bashing his character as being some flavors and levels of evil . . . so evil as to destroy churches.
It appears that the poster is of the opinion that the poster operating in some churches would leave them intact instead of destroying them or causing a split.
I'm not convinced of that construction on reality any more than I'm convinced that Rick Warren is an evil character.
It's not likely our constructions on reality will merge in this thread . . . or this life short of several miracles.
That might be something you will never understand. Discernment.
because of the ATTITUDE of forcing the Warren teachings down the throats of long-time members
. . . .
Ahhhhh . . . a key aspect . . . over which . . . Rick Warren has no control.
Fascinating.
And now I will never understand anything about discernment. Thanks for the insulting slam.
Cheerio . . . I don't think this is fruitful enough any longer even in behalf of the lurkers.
Though posting a thread about the dynamics of church splits from whatever kinds of observations are available . . . might . . . be interesting.
Actually, Warren foments the attitude in his book "The Purpose Driven Church" and others do it as well with such subjects as "Transitioning", the next step following PDL.
owhtk, Not sure why you posted to me but my disagreement with the enlightend GourmetDan who never even read the RW book and was railing against those who did read the book an wasted their money on such drivel. I never mentioned agreeing with RW or supporting PDL. My point is that GourmetDan is in no position to judge. I guess you want on that bandwagon also?
see post 10. Once again like GourmetDan you miss the point. GD was passing his judgment on posters who claimed to have purchased/read PDL whether or not the actually agreed with RW or applied his principles. Even though GD admitted he did not read the book. Kind of a drive by post, if you get what I mean.
Missed again. Not about RW or even the book but about a FR poster taking and uneducated shot at some who actually read. But if you still think wrongs = a right have a nice day.
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