Posted on 10/10/2006 4:56:51 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
Yes under Clinton's watch, can you not read the dates in those links and understand what dates like "1997" mean? Do you have evidence of the NSA, DOE, and NASA giving free advanced computer technology away to communists under Reagan or GH Bush? Apparently not, but you still saw it as a chance to ask another stupid question.
My point is Open Source is older than that.
I'd still like to know more than generalities. Are those portions incorporated in what our adversaries use? How much of the Linux OS is due to those improvements? Where there any alternatives that existed prior?
You are speaking as if it was brand new technology, Linux wouldn't exist without it, nor would any ability to use Linux in any military application and it was solely developed here in the US.
So - look at what was contributed - and please answer my questions. You still seem to think all the military possible applications on Linux (or the BSDs) were developed and contributed by the US Government. I think a lot of the confidential and real software they used was not added.
Those future improvements come not just from us. It appears you would forbid us from gaining from the work of the rest of the world in order for the rest of the world not to get our work. Again, we would be the ones left at a disadvantage.
BTW, nobody is talking about our government giving away our nuclear testing software. That is proprietary and classified. But operating systems, encryption algorithms and programs to do almost anything are a dime a dozen these days, nothing especially sensitive about them.
And FYI, all the NSA did was use publicly known techniques (mainly enforced mandatory access controls) to make a Linux installation more secure. No secrets there.
LMAO, just who do you claim the people at the NSA and DOE work for then? It's obvious you support them giving their work away to enemy governments, but these organizations are still American, funded by American tax dollars, which is why it sould be stopped.
Given our scores in math relative to other countries, that's a really stupid notion for the government to take up.
So what, America isn't the only one advancing nuclear designs either but that doesn't men we should give any of our nuclear secrets to enemy governments free of charge. Except to liberal one-worlders who think we should, just as we're seeing here.
You're going to have to explain how we're giving "our nuclear secrets to enemy governments free of charge" in Linux.
Parallel Virtual Machine (PVM) was developed by Oak Ridge National Laboratory (of DOE fame). Being responsible for parallelization, it was an essential part of building a cluster, and is still used today. The project was begun in 1989 and version 2 was released as open source in 1991, under Bush 41.
Body slam!
I await your weaseling...
BTW, PVM was also the critical component of NASA's Beowulf cluster, which would have otherwise just been a bunch of Linux boxes laying around..
Oh damn, you're right! I just downloaded a Linux distro and, oh my, all of our nuclear secrets are right there in the readme file!
And here I thought it was just an operating system.
I'm not claiming that, I was using it as a more extreme analogy to expose the thought as ridiculous. Just because we aren't the only ones doing something isn't justification to give away our own works, as he inferred.
Something else to remember -- the government cannot legally hold a copyright. Unless the application in question is not subject to FOIA (SBU/FOUO or classified), I'm pretty sure anyone can get the source code of a government computer program via an FOIA request.
The late Dr. Edward Teller--no left-wing ideologue he--was of the opinion that technical "secrets" should be declassified and released into the public domain no more than six months from discovery.
The STINET database at DTIC has reports with full source code for all sorts of things, including nuclear warfighting exchange models (i.e., computer simulations of Side A launching a nuclear attack, and Side B retaliating).
I'm not surprised a giveaway expert such as yourself is now jumping ecstatically for joy that you found evidence of tech giveaways prior to Clinton, not surprised it was DOE either. Still doesn't justify them then or now, giving technology away for free to your enemies is completely idiotic.
Poorly done weaseling, even for you.
This is just so stupid. If people want to give away their work, good for them. That is their choice.
I'll ask you again - How much did those contributions make to the whole Linux Operating System?
So, let me restate what you are saying. Your problem is not with open source, with Linux, FreeBSD, or the Free Software Foundation. Your specific problem is the decision of the NSA to contribute the code it developed that deals with the security of the Linux kernel to be part of the Linux kernel, correct?
But since they didn't have to do that, nor do they have to give away the more mission critical aspects of the software they developed and used on those platforms that do have national security implementations, your concern is not with Open Source, but with the voluntary actions of the NSA during the Clinton Administration. The real enemy is not Stallman, but Clinton, if I get your point.
Any work the government creates is public domain. But they can hold a copyright by having a contractor write the software and assign the copyright to the government. Personally, I think that's rediculous. Unless it's classified, any software developed with our tax dollars should be free to the people.
However, you do have a point. Any work with a registered copyright is publicly accessible at the Library of Congress.
What he is attempting to say is this (I think - hard to follow). Our government made a small contribution to Linux due to its Open Source license that enabled it to be more secure. That code contributed may be of a small degree of importance to any computer system that runs Linux and is used for a nation's military system. Therefore, we funded their military system.
There is a very small degree of logic, but it makes other assumptions not present:
1. That code is substantial and there is no alternative.
2. Linux wouldn't work without it.
3. The code was contributed due to the Open Source license.
If asked for guidance from him on the assumptions and he calls me a leftist because I use Linux. I am done responding to him now...
Read the latest comments, we're discussing if US government agencies should be giving high tech advancements away to all comers, which I doubt you agree with.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.