Detective got tough with Duke students (Herr Gottlieb's Record)

Raleigh News & Observer ^ | September 9, 2006 | Michael Biesecker, Samiha Khanna and Matt Dees

[JLS]

I view is slightly different.

1. I would put Nifong first. He found out about this case and then went about finding cops to lie about. He used it for purely political purposes. My view is that Nifong did not worry about Duke's reaction. He only worried about that primary. He cares about himself and nothing else.

2. Duke might be involve in anti-trust violations as you indicate. That is they might be buying up Trinity Park rental homes, to sell them to people who will not rent them out, not just to make nice to the Trinty Park complainers who are shocked let me tell you shocked that they buy in next to a college and discovered they had college students living around them, but to also fill up their dorms. If you are right, this is a FEDERAL crime Duke was committing. That is the were conspiring to make themselves a monopolist in the rental housing market by buying out competitors and taking those units out of the rental housing market. Again this if true is a Federal crime.

3. The cops were going to make nothing of this case. None of them believed Mangum. Then after Nifong found out about it, he turned to certain dirty cops he knew to help him with this case. So I would not blame DPD in general. Without Nifong, they would have soon put this allegation in the not believeable file.

[CondorFlight]

"That is the were conspiring to make themselves a monopolist in the rental housing market by buying out competitors and taking those units out of the rental housing market. Again this if true is a Federal crime."

Very interesting. I hope someone follows up on this. . .

[RecallMoran]

I can't even imagine how painful this is for parents whose kids chose Duke last year over other first rate schools only to find themselves in this rat's nest with no light at the end of the tunnel. Please be assured that there are many, many people supportive of you and your daughter, and recognize Brodhead, Nifong, et al as scalawags and con artists who are advancing themselves at the expense of people like your daughter. Shame on them; you mention tha your daughter is helping with the campaign to defeat Nifong. ANother constructive idea is to get pot-bangers outside of Brodhead's house demanding his resignation. How about that media event -- a few hundred students protesting Brodhead demanding his resignation while the cameras roll

Stay strong, and know that many posters here are supportive and sympathetic.

[RecallMoran]

I can't even imagine how painful this is for parents whose kids chose Duke last year over other first rate schools only to find themselves in this rat's nest with no light at the end of the tunnel. Please be assured that there are many, many people supportive of you and your daughter, and recognize Brodhead, Nifong, et al as scalawags and con artists who are advancing themselves at the expense of people like your daughter. Shame on them; you mention tha your daughter is helping with the campaign to defeat Nifong. ANother constructive idea is to get pot-bangers outside of Brodhead's house demanding his resignation. How about that media event -- a few hundred students protesting Brodhead demanding his resignation while the cameras roll

Stay strong, and know that many posters here are supportive and sympathetic.

[JLS]

It probably will not be followed up on. Colleges do lots of things like this. The Feds did move in case of financial aid a few years back and the important northeast private schools agreed and settled.

[Ken H]

This was something that just happened," he said. "We're human beings. We make mistakes; and we're going to learn from these mistakes and keep going."

I assume by "something" you mean the violent assault by your officers. Do you have that same forgiving attitude toward everyone who commits a violent assault in your jurisdiction? I wonder if these guys hang out at Blinco's.

[Mike Nifong]

3. The cops were going to make nothing of this case. None of them believed Mangum. Then after Nifong found out about it, he turned to certain dirty cops he knew to help him with this case. So I would not blame DPD in general.
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I agree. The beat Cops used the same determinants that they've used their entire career to assess her credibility. And I believe they determined that she was a problem child saying anything that was expedient.

IMO, due to a disfunctional Durham, Nifong got involved in the case in the investigation phase - where he has no business. The case was heaven sent and Nifong used it to achieve his personal goals.

I think Durham is an incestual, corrupt mess. It seems everything is inter-related. We have the City Manager inserting himself into the case and making multiple public statements that the woman never changed her story - and offering that he would know. He even stated how closely he was working with investigators on the case. We have a City Councilmen proclaiming them guility and predicting their Daddy's will get them off days into the investigation.
The, Mayor, for God's sake claims to know specifics that will be revealed at the right time. An investigator for the DA's office, interrupts a National press conference by the Defense attorneys to say that the woman never changed her story - and he had personally read the entire case file!

Early on in this thing, the Durham City Council urged a vote in support of Patrick Baker's handing of the Duke Rape incident - and multiple members took to the airwaves to express public support for his specific handling of the Duke case.

Someone else called it the Perfect Storm and I agree. IMO, if there were Honest people running Durham - you wouldn't have so many people willing to violate laws, processes, procedures, and go before National Cameras to defend others that have evidently done that same thing.

To me, common sense dictates that these people were comfortable in this position and doing these things. It strains credulity to think that this is the first time these people have crossed the line.

[Mike Nifong]

I wonder if these guys hang out at Blinco's.
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Remember, the DPD went to pains to publicly say their were others (including DPD) at Blinco's that didn't even know the other group was there. Highly unlikely in that small place.

Makes one wonder why they were so quick to make those public statements when they wouldn't answer any other questions on the subject.

[pepperhead]

I wonder if these guys hang out at Blinco's.

Obviously not because they didn't learn from the bald cop and flee the scene. ;)

[Mike Nifong]

Anyone see the contradictions in this statement by DPD Capt. Ed Sarvis to Duke Students accused of UNDERAGE Driking?

"Furthter, you are considered adults in the eyes of the law once you turn eighteen years of age."


Again, this all has to be viewed in the context that people are dying in Durham due to shootings and stabbings - and the City has reported that they have 35,000 unserved arrest warrants.

_

[RecallMoran]

I do wonder if this is where 60 Minutes is going. A report on a rape hoax isn' really their thing. They leave that to cable shows; but local corruption that (1) caused a huge national sensation and (2)is now dedicated to covering it up, ah now you're talking 60 Minutes language. I laid out in an earlier post a possible theory that, if true, implicates Nifong, Gottlieb, Brodhead, elected officials, the DPD and Lord only knows who else as being duplicitous. Just a theory that is supported by strong evidence. For example, what if 60 Minutes got hold of authentic (!) correspondence showing Duke knew and encouraged the violent crackdown on students? or that all these shady characters knew the charges were bogus but had ulterior motives for pursuing this mess?

There really is no other good reason for 60 Minutes to be interested in this debacle unless it was targeting one of the principle players. The question is who?

[Ken H]

The issue of student voting was briefly discussed on these threads some months ago, IIRC. I would have no idea how to go about finding it, but FR has been alert to this for a while. The numbers show they could make the difference:

Results of May 2 primary--

Mike Nifong- 11,168 45%
Freda Black- 10,269 42%
Keith Bishop-- 3,288 13%

http://abclocal.go.com/three/wtvd/election/race190.htm

[Dukie07]

Thanks, RM. My student, of course, did not make their decision recently. Graduation looms this year. But knowing what I know, I still would not have asked my student to change their decision. And yes, it was my student's decision. My only job was to support that decision. And I do. As I have stated many times, I am in awe of the university and the education it provides.

I cannot understand those whose answer to a problem is to tear down the institution. What possible good does damaging a really fine university serve? I would still rather have a doctor who's a Duke grad than a doctor who graduated from my local state u. And it's a good one. I think many of us - conservatives and liberals alike - graduated from a left-leaning institution. I mean, education and liberalism pretty much go hand in hand. I am sure there are some really fine conservative folks who call Duke their alma mater, and Harvard, and Princeton, etc. I would also like to point out that only 5% of Duke profs signed the infamous letter. By condeming the entire university, one is no better than those who condemned the entire lax team. It just makes no sense to me.

Yes, I can understand the frustration with the administration. Some are more upset than others. I can recall early on in this mess where my student told me that many of the students were upset with Brodhead because he didn't do more sooner - they wanted the team's heads! So, in that perspective, Brodhead's early reaction was extremely restrained. And McFayden's email, regardless of how it was meant, was extremely upsetting for many of the female students. Once the DNA results were out, the general Duke student (read: non-athlete) backed-off. Certainly I wish we would see more support from the school at this point. It is not only frustrating, but also disappointing. However, this is not the time to dwell on or deal with that. We still have three young men who need our support and efforts to reverse the wrong that is being done.

[Dukie07]

That letter is just all kinds of wrong. I half-believe it is a "dare" to the students. Bastard. (Can I say that on this board? Mods: please delete, if needed.)

[Ken H]

I should add there are also some 25,000 registered GOP voters who couldn't vote in the May 2 primary.

[Dukie07]

Exactly! Down with Nifong!!

[Dukie07]

I wasn't aware that anyone here was being used by anyone else. I thought we all wanted the same thing: an end to the misjustice being suffered by David, Reade and Collin.

To try to discount a person's value based on political feelings is downright stupid. Unfortunately, it is a tactic often used. After all, divided we fail. (Yes, that was a play on "divided we fall.")

[Ken H]

Down with Nifong!!

The Recall of Mike Nifong

[cherry]

"The question is who?"

you have to ask?....since when does the MSM ever, ever go after fellow leftists?....they don't.....

it killed them to even report on Ira Einhorn or whatever that murderer's name was.....

but If I was to guess, I would say they are looking for any chance at all to bash some conservative, Republican family member of the LAX team, if there are any....

never, ever trust the MSM to be even-handed...

[JLS]

I wasn't aware that anyone here was being used by anyone else. I thought we all wanted the same thing: an end to the misjustice being suffered by David, Reade and Collin.

I don't know Evans, Finnerty nor Seligmann nor do I pretend on the internet that I do by calling them by their first names. They are pretty much irrelevant to me. What I want is an out of control DA to get his due. I want the Durham justic system fixed for anyone who might become entangled in it.

Dukie07 said in post 197 [bold added]I don't much care for the current government in this country, but I'm not going to jump ship.

Well I do not really know how to take your statement above. It could mean you are very traditional and thing the government is heading too far left. Or it could mean, and I think this is more likely, that you do not care for President Bush and the GOP Congress because they are at least somewhat more conservative than the Dims.

If I took it right and you are don't like our national government because they are too conservative for you, YOU ARE USING THIS SITE. You are using this site because on most liberal sites, the Lacrosse 3 are hated for being white males and assumed guilty. On many liberal sites you get the CourtTV message board and so you are left with conservative sites for real discussion of this case.

Now if this is the case, I said I am willing to accept someone like you using us. But I posted the welcome message to you. This is a conservative site. You should not be surprised that many of us here are conservative. We see the problem as much much broader than a mistake being made in the case of three men accused. We see a systematic problem with the racist and sexist Dimocrat party favoring certain groups and raising a huge stink to get special rights for groups based on the group members voting Dimocrat. We, INCLUDING ME, say lots of other things you would not agree with perhaps on threads on lots of topics here.

If you are here only for this one topic and generally disagree with us, you should be polite and tread carefully not every one is as welcoming of lefties using this site for one issue here or there. If you are don't like the government because you think the GOP and President Bush are too liberal, then you are not using this site.