Dobbs- North American Union (watch the video)

YouTube (vids) ^ | June 25, 2006 | Lou Dobbs/CNN

[jveritas]

I think dennis forgot to mention France as the ideal model for economic prosperity :)

[dennisw]

You asked the same dumb question a few weeks back. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1650471/posts#24

My answer is on that thread

[Mase]

As I said before facts means absolutely nothing to some people, it is just about emotions.

Isn't that the truth. None of them ever stops to realize we manufacture and export more now than at any other time in our history and we still lead the world in just about every area of technology.

They must live in a gloomy place

[dennisw]

LOL. Japan's external debt is 170% of their annual GDP - almost three times more than ours. 

You are way off. Japan has a trade surplus every year with USA each year and a trade surplus with all it's other trade partners lumped together

BBC News | The Economy | Record trade surplus for Japan

Japan reports a record trade surplus for 1998, leading to fears of growing trade tensions with the rest of the world.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/262374.stm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

BBC NEWS | Business | Japan's trade surplus grows

Japan's annual trade surplus grew by 7.3% in July, as brisk exports to Asia offset sluggish demand in the United States, official figures say.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3178709.stm - 31k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from news.bbc.co.uk ]

Trade Surplus - Explore Japan - Kids Web Japan - Web Japan

From around the middle of the 1970s, Japan began to develop chronic trade surpluses as exports outstripped imports. The trade surplus, which reached its ...
web-japan.org/kidsweb/japan/economy/q3.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages

[jveritas]

LOL :) I like this because the artist used the donkey (democrats) as being under the raining cloud.

[dennisw]

Isn't that the truth. None of them ever stops to realize we manufacture and export more now than at any other time in our history

We import more manufactured items than any other time in our history and this is why we run 850 billion dollar trade deficits. Oil imports are also a killer.

and we still lead the world in just about every area of technology.

Asians are gaining and lead in many fields. Japan leads in many fields

[Mase]

My answer is on that thread

And it still makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

This guy runs the Economics department at George Mason University. This is a solidly conservative department that has attracted some of the best talent in the country. Walter Williams works for him. He knows what he's talking about. From the article:

But doesn't a higher trade deficit mean that Americans are sinking more deeply into debt? Not at all. A trade deficit isn't debt. My young son, for example, received for Christmas several Chinese-made toys. These were bought with cash. If the Chinese toymakers invest their newly earned dollars in, say, that factory in Utah, the U.S. trade deficit rises but no debt is created. Neither I nor any other American owes any foreigner anything as a result of my purchase of toys from China and the corresponding Chinese purchase of equity in a company located in America.

Stop Worrying About the Trade Deficit

I'm still holding out hope that someday you'll grasp this simple yet important concept.

[Mase]

You are way off. Japan has a trade surplus every year with USA each year and a trade surplus with all it's other trade partners lumped together

Do you understand the difference between external debt and a trade surplus? I think we've found an important part of your misunderstanding.

[Mase]

I like this because the artist used the donkey (democrats) as being under the raining cloud.

Heheh. I think the creator of that cartoon must have been a conservative.

[Mase]

We import more manufactured items than any other time in our history and this is why we run 850 billion dollar trade deficits. Oil imports are also a killer.

Killing us so badly our GDP only grew at a 5.7% clip last quarter. LOL

Asians are gaining and lead in many fields

Yeah, just like in the 80's? It's deja vu all over again.

Japan leads in many fields

Sure. Japanese creativity and entrepreneurial ability is legendary.

[dennisw]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt

External debt is the sum total of nation's trade deficits. Japan does not have an external debt. Our is about 6 trillion. This entry say our external debt is 15 trillion
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:QmhFOHfwPPkJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States+%22foreigners+are+estimated+at+%2415+trillion%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

[Revel]

Those on FR who have there eyes closed said the same thing about the digital Angel micro chip until the evidence became so mainstream that they could no longer hide from it.

[Mase]

Trade deficits don't cause debt. Government spending more than it takes in does.

Japan public debt = 170% of 2005 GDP
Germany public debt = 68.1% of 2005 GDP
USA public debt = 64.7% of 2005 GDP

Source

How can it be that Japan and Germany have more debt, as a % of GDP, than we do when they have massive and consistent trade surpluses?

[dennisw]

I am only discussing Japan and Japan has no external debt. You WRONGLY claimed it did. Now you are bringing Japan's and Germany's public debt into the picture. That's a different subject.

You are the one who is very loudly confusing public debt with external debt. I suggest you consult wikipedia to learn the difference

[sinkspur]

Those on FR who have there eyes closed said the same thing about the digital Angel micro chip until the evidence became so mainstream that they could no longer hide from it.

Alex (Jones) Has Been Talking about This All Along -- Making Implantable Chips "Trendy, Cool and Stylish" -- Training the Impressionable for Police State Worship.

[dennisw]

How can it be that Japan and Germany have more debt, as a % of GDP, than we do when they have massive and consistent trade surpluses?

There may be differences between the way the USA, Japan, Germany calculate public debt. Is each nation adding up Federal, State, County debts? Or just citing the Federal debt? I don't know the answer. Germany is close to us in the figures you posted. Japan is far different. For all I know they may be very bad in this area. But don't bet me 1000$ on Japan's external debt because they have none. They have an external surplus. I'm pretty sure the same is true for China Taiwan Korea

[Mase]

I am only discussing Japan and Japan has no external debt.

The CIA Fact Book says they had about $1.6 trillion in external debt for 2004. That number will be larger today. Source

Nevertheless, my point had to do with their total public debt. It's 170% of GDP. Much higher than ours. For a country that does the only thing you claim they need to do to remain healthy - maintain a trade surplus - they sure don't look healthy from this perspective. It's all about debt, right?

So the point remains the same, how can these countries have larger public debts than we have, as a % of GDP, when they run massive trade surpluses? With these huge trade surpluses why has Japan's economy been mired in recession and deflation for 15 of the past 16 years? Why has Germany experienced little economic growth and incredible unemployment? When was the last time we had 12% unemployment or 10 years of deflation?

Conversely, The US, with it's massive current account deficit hums along as the locomotive for the world economy, sporting the worlds largest GDP (more than double Japan) and growing at a rate that makes us the envy of the world. How do we maintain such a low rate of unemployment, a rapidly increasing personal net worth, a manufacturing sector that has expanded for 37 months in a row while fighting a war and dealing with the highest oil prices in history?

How do we do it if the trade deficit, which we've run for more than 30 years now, is so detrimental to our economy? Or, maybe you're just wrong.

[dennisw]

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=275404

I don't know where or how the CIA got those numbers but they are impossible for Japan since they have been running trade surpluses for years. Even during the 1990s. I can only guess that the CIA is including foreigners buying debt issued by Japan's central government

That CIA chart is off because it has every well known nation having an external debt. This just ain't true

[Trupolitik]

Thank you for posting this video! You sir are a true American Patriot, and a Minuteman.

[Blackyce]

Trade surpluses have little to do with "external debt" calculations in the abstract. You're conflating separate economic issues. Every nation on earth has external debt. All that means is that the residents, banks, companies, or governments of one country owe principal or interest payments to similar persons in another country. It says little about financial solvency in the abstract and it says little about the balance of trade. It is not offset by similar debt holdings the first country has in other countries so virtually every country on earth is holding external debt.

"Public debt", on the other hand, is what that 170% figure is referring to in that above post. Public debt is the amount of debt a national government owes to its creditors for loans to used to fund government operations. The government of Japan is deeply in debt.

Neither of those figures is directly determined by balance of trade deficits. Balance of trade shortfalls can be made up by taking on more external debt(loans, bonds) or selling off assets(stocks, land, factories, equipment, etc). Which means that external debt is not necessarily directly affected by the trade balance. Public debt(the figure people talk about when complaining about the National Debt) doesn't necessarily have anything to with trade deficits at all. It's just a matter of whether the government spends more than it brings in, and how they choose to fund shortfalls.