Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
- Luke 10:36-37
Posted on 06/08/2006 2:35:37 PM PDT by nhoward14
It depends a great deal on the condition of the person in question, how far up the mountain they all are, and in many cases also on the condition and supplies of the people who encounter him. If the victim is unconscious, barely breathing, suffering from severe hypothermia and oxygen deprivation, and the people who find him are already stretched to their limits themselves, and have barely enough oxygen to sustain themselves, attempting to carry another adult person down from near the peak of the mountain could be an exercise in suicide. The climbers who are barely making it to that level themselves, are well aware that pushing oneself beyond one's limits is how these collapsed/dying climbers got that way in the first place. Emulating reckless behavior doesn't necessarily make sense. One of the previous stories I saw said that the victim (who was left, and died) was a repeat climber who refused to carry any oxygen with him, despite having gotten is serious trouble and failed to make it to the peak due to lack of oxygen on at least one previous attempt.
["Oh yeah, it was worth it," he said. "You can always go back to the summit but you only have one life to live. If we had left the man to die, that would have always been on my mind ... How could you live with yourself?"]
He's a good man.
A licensing requirement for guides would probably be a good idea as well, along with requirements for proper equipment and oxygen supply for climbers.
That said, why the HELL would he put himself into a situation which by his own admission will most likely lead to his death?
I agree, he's a hero, where others recently were merely also-rans. He's also from my home town of Olympia... It's nice when someone from my town gets coverage for something other than standing in front of Israeli Bulldozers.
As for "why", because he loves the adventure of it. Some people love safety, some love adventure. What's the quote from one of the shuttle tragedies? "Blessed are the risk takers, the explorers, who go where I would quake to go, and do what I would only fear to do"... Something like that.
There are always borderline cases, like the ones you hear about where EMTs couldn't find a pulse on an ice-cold person, declared him/her dead, only to have the morgue later discover the person to be alive. But generally those people are so far gone that they die (and would have died) anyway, and NONE of them are in any condition to be engaging in coherent conversation -- their non-dead status is usually discovered when somebody sees a faintly rising chest, or tiny movement of eyelids or extremities; not by their sitting up and announcing to the morgue staffer "I imagine you're surprised to see me here".
Of course, it is 2006. Why don't they just build an escalator? Then nobody would have to kill themselves climbing it. [end ditzy blonde mode]
You said -- "A licensing requirement for guides would probably be a good idea as well, along with requirements for proper equipment and oxygen supply for climbers."
It sounds like it. I would have thought that by now they would have had all that worked out. It's not like they haven't been climbing that mountain for a while.
Regards,
Star Traveler
Yep. My gut tells me the guy was being robbed, but the robbers sure take a big risk in climbing the mountain. I will admit it easier to cover a murder by claiming he died on the mountain.
Heh... for a government shrinker, you sure seem to recommend a lot of government-based solutions. :~D
I think the trouble is in climbing the mountain accompanied only by people who are merely paid staff. A sherpa doesn't care about you, it's just a job. I wouldn't climb the mountain unless there was someone in my party with a mutual loyalty of friendship that might mean a little more in the end than the level of loyalty you get with a fee for service :~)
... feeling fit, Lincoln had gone on and reached the 8850-meter (29,035 feet) summit at about 9 a.m. on May 25. After some celebratory radio calls, he and the two Sherpas accompanying him headed back down. Not long afterward Lincoln was hit by cerebral edema (swelling of the brain) and became disoriented, ataxic and at 8800 meters (28,870 feet) collapsed. For almost 9 hours the Sherpas tried to help and lowered him down over very technical sections of the mountain. But under the influence of extreme altitude sickness, Lincoln became delusional and obstructive and they determined at 7 p.m. that they could not help him further.
With night coming on, expedition leader Abramov ordered the Sherpas to abandon him and save themselves, so they returned to the camp at 8300 meters suffering snow blindness. Abramov issued the news that Lincoln Hall had perished, and the report hit the wires across Australia soon after.
At 7 a.m. the next morning, American guide Dan Mazur was climbing towards the summit with some clients when they came across Hall who, though inert, showed weak signs of life. One report on EverestNews.com claimed Lincoln was sitting with his legs dangling over the face of the mountain half undressed and without a hat. They report his first words were, "I imagine you are surprised to see me here."
Mazur administered tea and radioed down to base camp. Immediately 13 Sherpas camped at the North Col (7000 meters) began climbing back up to rescue Lincoln, under the direction of Abramov. By 11 a.m., three Sherpas with medicine, oxygen and tea reached Lincoln at the Second Step (8600 meters) and with the help of Mazur and team they began to move him down on a stretcher....
...Sirdar Mingma Gelu and more Sherpas arrived, and brought Hall to the North Col Camp at 7000 meters where he was treated by Russian Doctor Andrey Selivanov for "acute psychosis" and given oxygen while sleeping. So rapid is the recovery from edema after descending, Lincoln walked the last 500 meters into camp unaided. A further day-long descent brought him back down to Advanced Base Camp (ABC) and much thicker air — the best medicine for altitude problems....
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
- Luke 10:36-37
Well, I'm not in favor of the idea of making it illegal not to help other climbers who get in trouble. Too many tough judgement calls, few if any witnesses, and the government has no business coercing people into risking their lives for other people, no matter how virtuous that might be in some situations. A little upfront regulation would make it easier to fend off demands for that kind of after-the-fact investigations and trials, which would involve huge disruptions to the lives of tourists who'd planned to be in the area briefly and could be forced to stay, or to take multiple expensive flights half way around the world to show up for court dates, even if they turned out to be innocent, or weren't even accused but were just material witnesses.
I'm a GovernmentShrinker, not a GovernmentEliminator. Certain things just work a lot better for everybody if they're reasonably regulated. And things which often involve tourists or other short-term visitors to a particular jurisdiction, who often may not speak the local language or be familiar with local norms, are prime candidates.
NYC cabs are a good example. The city is full of shifty unlicensed "livery" cabs, and of imitators thereof whose sole activity is to snare tourists and rob them (or worse). It's a really good thing to be able to tell people that there is only one kind of legitimate, legal car-for-hire that picks up street hails, and that is medallioned yellow cabs. Not only does this provide a simple to understand route to safety for visitors and city regulars, but the combination of that law and the limited number of medallions available, means that NYC cab drivers are a pretty sane and stable bunch because there's plenty of competition for those jobs. Despite the regulation, the system has a large private component. The cabs and medallions are owned by a large assortment of private companies (and a handful of individual drivers), who are free to buy and sell the medallions at market rates and who are in charge of hiring their own drivers (or more often, renting out the cabs by the shift to carefully selected "independent contractors"). The cab/medallion owners make good money and the drivers make good money, and it's easy to get around the city safely without having to own or rent a car of your own, at great expense and with great street-clogging effect.
I'm in an excellent position to appreciate the NYC cab system, since I commute weekly between NYC and the Philly area. I really try to avoid taking Philly cabs (generally only do it when my train gets in so late that the suburban trains have stopped running) because both the vehicles and the drivers include some scary specimens (e.g. slipping transmissions, squealing brakes, and psycho drivers). Philly is in the process of trying to clean up the system, but there's still a long way to go and more regulation is urgently needed. A couple of years back, I narrowly missed getting into a cab with a totally psycho driver. When I took a pass (due to his unprovoked tantrum) and got into the next cab in line, the other driver shook his head and said "He's crazy, we all know about him!" So Monday morning I call the cab company whose name and phone number were on the cab, and they beg me to make a big issue of it with the regulatory authority, telling me they took him off their radio a year ago, and have trying to get him to take their name and number off his cab ever since because it's horrible for their reputation, but the regulatory authority and police won't lift a finger to help. Turns out most of the Philly cabs, even with the larger cab companies, are driver-owned, and the company whose name/number is on the side is just a radio dispatcher that works with them. And psycho-driver was getting around the no-radio problem by focusing on taxi stands like the one at 30th Street Station. He wouldn't have lasted 24 hours in NYC -- the Taxi and Limousine Commission has a sizeable crew of undercover agents who routinely board cabs, both at random, and targeting those who have complaints against them -- unauthorized drivers are toast. I can't figure out any way that a big city cab system could be run safely and efficiently without significant regulation. The free market certainly hasn't done the trick in Philly.
LOL! Don't give them any ideas. I'm sure there'd be a market for something like that (with seats), attractive to ditzy young jet setters (think Paris Hilton) and status-conscious corporate execs and their ditzy wives (those folks love to tell people about all the impressive places they've been on vacation, but they do NOT want to strain and sweat, much less breathe oxygen-poor air).
I hope Mazur gets some kind of medal and reward for his unselfishness.
Update: Lincoln Hall has walked across the border into Nepal. Dan Mazur and the group are in Base camp should be back in Katmandu in a day or two. Lincoln, is having a hard time speaking and reportedly does not recall much from the night up high....
from http://www.everestnews.com/Summitclimb2005/everestdan06022006.htm
Thanks for this. Very heart warming.
jm
I haven't climbed for 25 years or so (and then I was a pretty unadventuresome rock climber), but I avidly read the literature then. Leaving people to die was inconceivable. The attempt to rescue Art Gilkey on K-2 in 1953 is celebrated. The expedition was made up of some of the greatest climbers in the USofA, led by Charlie Houston. Gilkey developed thrombophlebitis (clotting of blood in a leg and a lung) at 25,500 ft (K2 is 28250 ft in elevation), which was life-threatening in a hospital at sea level. The expedition tried to get him down, despite the risk that all of the climbers at that altitude could perish.
As it ended up, the team had a serious fall. Gilkey, who was immobile, was tied off, while the fallen climbers were recovered, and, when they went to get Gilkey, he had disappeared. Some think that an avalanche carried him away while others believe that he sacrificed himself, as he recognized the danger of the rescue.
The problem seems to be that climbing Mt Everest has become a business, and the professional guides are extremely reluctant not to deliver success to their customers who have paid a lot of money. I'll never face the question, but I would think that I would more cherish the memory of participating in a high-altitude rescue than that of standing on the summit of Everest.
We live in sick society.
It doesn't matter - you still try to get the unfortunate down.
It is just WRONG to leave a stranded climber without ANY attempt at a rescue. It is even more wrong to leave him because you're all hot to reach the summit that you've paid big bucks for.
My earlier pic disappeared . . . those of us who profess and call ourselves Christians have to condemn this sort of behavior out of hand, because of the specific instructions given us by Christ. But all decent civilized people ought to act like the Good Samaritan - who had little if any reason to stop and help a Jew and simply acted out of common humnaity.
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