Sutter elected to Hall of Fame; Rice, Gossage fall short

CBS SPortsline ^ | 10 Jan 2005 | AP

[GraniteStateConservative]

Jim Rice's HOF resume

[Semper Paratus]

Rice never kissed up to the media during his playing days and was rather surly.

But journalists never carry grudges. They've said so.

[HEY4QDEMS]

Rice never treated the media well. They are paying him back....

Ted Williams would spit toward the press box after every homerun. He went in on the first ballot.

[commish]

Good question. it will be interesting to see which team Sutter picks. His best Year was with St. Louis, but I wouldn't bet against Bruce Going in as a Cubbie.

[slowhand520]

No Don Mattingly again? That is BS

[commish]

Writers had no choice but to put Williams in first ballot. Rice unfortunately does not have the stats to warrant enshrinement no matter what, so as a result he is at the whim of the writers he dissed his whole career.

Barry Bonds is a good example of this type of case. Writers can't stand the man, and probably wish he had never been born, but any writer that does not vote for Bonds first ballot is an idiot.

[Huck]

Blyleven should be a no-brainer. I don't get it.

Since 1900, Bert Blyleven ranks 5th in career strikeouts, 8th in shutouts, and 17th in wins.

Bert Blyleven 17th 5th 8th
Steve Carlton 6th 4th 13th
Ferguson Jenkins 19th 11th 17th
Walter Johnson 1st 9th 1st
Gaylord Perry 12th 8th 14th
Nolan Ryan 8th 1st 6th
Tom Seaver 13th 6th 6th
Don Sutton 8th 7th 9th


Ryan is the only pitcher who ranks higher than Blyleven in all three categories. That's right, there is only one pitcher in the history of baseball who has more wins, strikeouts, and shutouts than Blyleven. There are thousands of pitchers who rank below Blyleven in these three important measures, including tens of Hall of Famers and a half dozen -- Jim Bunning, Bob Gibson, Catfish Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Juan Marichal, and Jim Palmer -- who had overlapping careers.

[commish]

Donnie baseball is in the same boat as Dale Murphy -- he one hell of a great stretch of years, but does not have the career stats to get in. MUrphy and Mattingly both were among the baseball elite for almost 10 years, unfortunately that is not enough.

Sutter was right on the precipice of not having a long enough career, he benefitted from being absolutely dominant in his area (closing). A case can be made that while Mattingly and Murphy were among the best at thier positions, they were not so dominant that they stick out.

[Reagan Man]

Barry Bonds belongs in the Hall of Shame.

[Reagan Man]

Sutter had 300 saves, 68-71 won-lost in 661 games, 1042 innings, 2.83 era, 861 K`s, 309 walks and 77 homers allowed over 12 years.

Gossage had 310 saves, 124-107 won-lost in 1002 games, 1809 innings, 3.01 era, 1502 K`s, 732 walks and 119 homers allowed over 22 years.

Since Sutter has the stats to make it, then Goose should be in the HOF too.

[misterrob]

Rice and Dawson were dominant players of their era and did it without cheating. Sosa, McGuire, Bonds, etc., inflated their stats through roids, supplements and even corked bats (Sosa). Rice pretty much owned the American League in his day and Dawson ht over 400 HR's when it really meant something.

I think it sucks that sports writers get to have a say in who makes it to the Hall of Fame. Imagine having to kiss Dan Shaughnessy's ass to get in to the Hall.

Of all the indignities

[slowhand520]

I know. Mattingly dominated and was the best first baseman from '84-'89. Hardly enough to get him in. But the HOF should be sympathetic to players, such as Mattingly, who had a bad back injury that hampered his ability. And sympathetic to whiny baseball fans that want him in there

[philo]

Walt Weiss 1 0.2%

The real story is who voted for Walt Weiss?

[HEY4QDEMS]

I still love watching clips of Jim Everett chasing him off the set like the weasle beyatch that he is.

[ravinson]

Hated him as a Cub. Loved him as a Cardinal.

[rattrap]

Congrats Bruce! Go Braves!

[GreatOne]

Blyleven should be a no-brainer. I don't get it.

Let me help explain it to (and keep in mind I'm a Twins fan and love listening to Blyleven on t.v.):

1) 2 All-Star game nominations in 22 years.

2) Only 3 years in the Top 5 for Cy Young voting in 22 years.

3) Only 2 years winning 18 or more games, with only 1 20-win season.

4) Any comparisons to Nolan Ryan vis-a-vis playing for poor teams goes out the window when you see that Blyleven won-loss record over a 162 game average comes out to only 14-12.

Bottom line is this - Bert was a very good pitcher, as were Tommy John and Jim Kaat. But he wasn't "one of the best" at any time during his career. The main problem here is what I call the "Don Sutton problem". Just because a player is fortunate enough to play a lot of years and manages to accumulate stats doesn't mean they belong in the Hall of Fame. It's an embarrassment that Don Sutton is in the Hall of Fame, just plain silly.

You should spend your time arguing for Jack Morris, a pitcher who was considered the best pitcher during his era, who was the top pitcher on 3 World Series-winning teams, was an All-Star and Top 5 Cy Young finisher 5 times each, and who won 18 or more games 6 times in 18 years. Most importantly, with his 1991 Game 7 performance, Morris has answered the question of which pitcher would you want on the hill with everything on the line.

[Strategerist]

But the HOF should be sympathetic to players, such as Mattingly, who had a bad back injury that hampered his ability.

The list of players who had their careers shortened by injury is infinite. You can't go around tacking on numbers for them to make them HOF-worthy based on imagining that injury didn't occur.

There are two issues where a player should get credit for numbers he SHOULD have had; one is where you have a player go off to the military for a couple of years and come back; since they played before and after the missing years you can reasonably extrapolate the numbers they would have had had they not been serving their country. The second is when you had a player straddle the negro and major leagues.....a guy like Minnie Minoso gets hurt by that because he didn't come to the majors till rather late; and again you can reasonably extrapolate what he would have done in the majors had the color line been broken earlier.

[BallyBill]

Congratulations! As a Phillies fan I hated that guy, of I course I always wanted the Phillies to find some way of acquiring him.

[Strategerist]

Wins and losses is an exceedingly stupid stat to assess pitchers by.

If the win-loss statistic didn't exist, and some baseball nerd invented it now and tried to get it accepted, he'd be laughed off the face of the planet.