Posted on 10/12/2005 5:55:27 AM PDT by Rakkasan1
"just how many years to you expect the Twins and Vikings to occupy the Metrodome? "
Zero years, if a stadium is going to be paid for by taxpayers in any proportion. Let the teams go somewhere else. I do not follow professional sports. I do not wish to pay taxes to pay for professional sports stadia.
They are businesses. Let them pay for themselves. And, while they're at it, let them move those stadia out of town. Downtown stadia are indeed a blight. They create additional traffic in already busy areas and keep people away from real businesses.
Let the teams pay for their own freaking stadia!
I see your problem. You're having a hard time differentiating between economic and social activity. There are plenty of studies that dispute the common misconception that publicly funded stadiums are an economic boon to the communities that build them. Google (and an open mind) are your friends.
The Metrodome will do nicely as configured.
No. Way.
:-D )))
Sex is a private thing. As long as they're only having sex with one another I don't think it should be in the papers...
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5663357.html
Vikings cruise was allegedly a sex party
David Chanen, Paul McEnroe and Kevin Seifert, Star Tribune
Last update: October 12, 2005 at 11:51 AM
Minnesota Vikings players are being investigated in connection with a lake cruise that turned into a wild sex party last week on Lake Minnetonka. The party became so out of control that crew members on the two yachts were offered money for sex and feared for their safety, law enforcement authorities and an attorney for the cruise company said Tuesday.
The excursion Thursday on two yachts owned by Al & Alma's Supper Club and Charter Cruises in Mound was organized by first-year Vikings safety Fred Smoot and possibly two other players, according to Stephen Doyle, the company's attorney.
At least 17 Vikings players have been identified as being on the yachts, he said. It was unclear how many were involved in sex-related activities.
At least 90 people were on the two yachts. The boats were ordered to return to shore just 40 minutes into what had been planned as a 3½-hour cruise after supervisors learned of the alleged behavior.
The crew members, including one who was 18, were "petrified" for their safety, Doyle said.
"The behavior was terrible," he said. "Vikings were absolutely participating. This was not a passive event for them. It was outrageous."
The Hennepin County Sheriff's Office is investigating the case, after the boat company notified authorities about the players' alleged behavior.
No arrests have been made, and no charges have been filed.
The incident took place during the team's bye week; the Vikings didn't play Sunday.
Late Tuesday, Vikings officials issued a statement: "The organization has been made aware of the allegations involving our players and we take these allegations very seriously. We are working diligently to gather as many facts as possible. At this time, we have no further comment."
Attempts to reach Smoot and his agent were unsuccessful.
Doyle said behavior on the cruise included oral sex, masturbation and playing with sex toys.
A source with direct knowledge of the case said Tuesday that accounts of Vikings players having public sex on at least one of the boats matched with what witnesses had reported.
The source said that it appeared that the sex acts took place between consenting adults and that no felony-level crimes had been committed. The source said that it was likely that misdemeanor charges involving lewd behavior could be filed against some players within a week.
(snip)
one of the few intelligent things he ever said.
"The presence of a team is a significant asset for millions of people that never visit the stadium or spend a dime to watch a game. The ability to watch a home team, listen to a team, root for a team, discuss a team over the water cooler, read about them, complain about them, and possibly dance in the street in joyous rapture to celebrate their glorious exploits, is a very real economic asset to vast numbers tax paying of people.
"
"Doyle said behavior on the cruise included oral sex, masturbation and playing with sex toys."
Game prep no doubt!
the pissing in people's yards afterwards was high class, too.
on't talk about Daunte like that
Ah, when the Right acts like the Left. The Left wants to control personal behavior (diversity) and the Right wants to control personal behavior (sex). So, why are we better than the left?
So if a waitress in a bar makes extra income on game day and uses that extra income to enhance her life by X amount, that is economic activity. Then there’s a family man in the suburbs that loves his team watches the game on TV with his son. His life is enhanced by the same intangible, but very real, X amount by the presence of the same game in his town. But in your book, that isn’t economic activity?
I see your problem, your view of economic activity is ridiculously narrow and confined only to cash register transactions. Your labeling of anything not directly measurable in financial terms as social and not economic is bad science.
These so-called studies you point to are garbage because the invariably suffer from the same problem. They never attempt to quantify the benefits the product itself provides. They focus only on the peripherals like secondary job creation. Then they weigh the waitress tip total against the taxes paid, and surprise surprise, declare the enterprise a failure.
Have you ever once seen a single one of these studies that attempts to quantify the simple aggregate enjoyment a region derives from the presence of a team in town? Have you ever seen one of these researchers at a championship victory parade attempting to gauge and measure the benefit the celebrants have derived from the stadium that houses their beloved team? Of course not. Apart from the snobbery and obtuseness involved in dismissing such benefits as social, rather than economic, it wouldn’t fit the agenda. Was there economic benefit in Boston last fall, or just social activity? When you started to measure and quantify the economic benefit provided to every Average Joe an afternoon in front of the TV with his home team, verses what his next best alternative would be in the team’s absence, the cumulative total would massively outweigh Average Joe’s tax contribution to facilities. There might even be real dollar’s and cents implications for Joe as he is forced to part with cash to pursue his second best option. Add it all up and there’s a lot of benefiting going on. That’s why the narrow focus is so strictly adhered to by the so-called protectors of the tax payer’s wallet.
As if it's not depressing enough there during games.
Madonna had a 'team event' with basketball players several years ago. I guess it still goes on.
Well we know this "team event" had one thing in common with what they have been doing on Sundays, it didn't involve actually playing football.
LOL, they're acting like a scene out of the movie "Any Given Sunday" and trading off their 15-1 season when they actually played and won. Now they're acting like gangsta rappers, they all want the 'lifestyle' with no work attached. The Vikes are 1-3 on the season. I've been a fan for years, but their recent debacles are starting to wear on me...
That's correct, it's not economic activity.
I see your problem, your view of economic activity is ridiculously narrow and confined only to cash register transactions. Your labeling of anything not directly measurable in financial terms as social and not economic is bad science.
I see, the numbers don't add up, so you want to assign enough value to "good feelings" to cover the shortfall.
Have you ever once seen a single one of these studies that attempts to quantify the simple aggregate enjoyment a region derives from the presence of a team in town?
It's entertainment. I'm all for being entertained, but I don't ask the government to subsidize my leisure, and I don't care for others wanting to pick my pocket for theirs.
Fair is Fair. If a sports team wants my money to build infrastructure so they can make more money for providing their product, I want a cut of the action. That would cause aggregate enjoyment to explode in the region when taxes go down because of revenue from sports teams.
Add it all up and there’s a lot of benefiting going on. That’s why the narrow focus is so strictly adhered to by the so-called protectors of the tax payer’s wallet.
Yup, there's benefitting that you can fold going to the team, and the other kind that you can't going to the taxpayer.
Hey, in all your civic pride calculations do you offset for the shame of regions that have teams that suck? Every game day half of the teams lose, you can't say that that evokes the same warm and fuzzy feeling that a win does...
I dont believe this qualifies as private actions taking place on private property. Lake Minnetonka is a public thoroughfare and staffed chartered boats qualify as commercial businesses. I'm sure that is why the the sheriff's dept is investigating. Either way, the Vikes can kiss their stadium deal goodbye.
I'm still wondering why they can't tear down the crapodome and build a new stadium there since the space and underground utilities are there and already paid for.
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