Posted on 01/11/2005 6:18:33 PM PST by malakhi
Paul did not write the book of Daniel...
Nor did he write the Gospel of Mark (where Jesus is quoted using the term).
Prove it?
Why the need for a New Testament anyway since salvation was already available to the Jew and Gentile within Judaism in their respective Covenants with God?
"Available" was not sufficient apperently. God had greater plans.
Did others follow the trend of adding to and further correcting the first New Testament theologically?
Well.... yes. It was called the Reformation (and later the "KJV").
Oh? Then you are saying the Protestant Churches which profess the Trinity are not Christian and are not members of the "Church"?
You need to work on your reading comprehension.
Any Christian today professes the Trinity and this is a "holdover" from the days when there was only the one Church, later schismed into two and "reformed" into fragments.
What I am saying is that this belief in the Trinity links all Christians back to the original Church councils.
I am told by Protestants I am not a Christian because I don't accept belief in the Trinity. You seemingly go farther, claiming only Catholics (Roman version) and Orthodox as the only true "Christians".
Trinitarian belief is a general requirement for "orthodox" Christianity. For instance, a "baptism" not done according to the Trinitarian formula is invalid due to lack of form.
SD
I see. You have really bought into this, haven't you?
Explain to me how God made the universe out of nothing.
YHWH can speak things into existence.
But how? Do you really not understand what is meant by "mystery"? Do you really not have any sense of awe? I really can't continue to discuss things with someone whose polemical style forces her to disavow any sense of the supernatural.
SD
I don't remember knowing that.... but I haven't been in the sandbox much lately... maybe I forgot?
Gee.... ya think you know a person.
That's essentially true. Oh it doesn't encompass all of the people who CALL themselves "Christian" (Jefferson, for instance, claimed to be a "real Christian" because he "followed the genuine teachings of Christ"... but he didn't believe Jesus was Divine... just a prophet), but calling oneself a pear does not make one a pear.
Oops... Reg, that should have been to you (guess I'm a little rusty).
Does this mean that fans of professional hockey are NiHiLists? :o)
I shudder to think of what you could make out of the AHL. ;-)
The Frozen Four should be coming up soon. And there's always Penguins Classic games on Fox Sports. What's really surprising is the success of the ECHL. They have teams from Alaska to California to Florida. Somehow "East Coast Hockey League" just doesn't fit.
I'm all for a financially sound NHL. The players certainly won't be bargaining from any position of strength come this summer or fall or whenever. I say hire new players and let the old ones straggle back in when they need the money, or get tired of playing in Europe.
SD
LOL!
What's really surprising is the success of the ECHL.
I'm not familiar with them, but Green Bay has a USHL franchise (the Gamblers). And Appleton has the Fox Cities Ice Dogs, a GLHL (Great Lakes Hockey League) 'amateur elite' team. Do you have a 'local' AHL team? The Milwaukee Admirals are usually pretty competitive.
I'm all for a financially sound NHL. The players certainly won't be bargaining from any position of strength come this summer or fall or whenever. I say hire new players and let the old ones straggle back in when they need the money, or get tired of playing in Europe.
Absolutely.
Looks like you are politely agreeing to disagree with no comment on the matter.
Yep. I don't think we have any need to further discuss the reality of mystery in faith. Thanks for the discussion.
hmmm. Not sure if you're being polite or flip here. The point of that discussion was to talk about the sense mystery that surrounds the idea of God's existence. I probably should have gone further to point out that this type of mystery is entirely different than the mystery of a trinity or a virgin birth...or a god-man dying for the sins of all mankind. You seem to want to compare apples to oranges in discussing the mystery of religion. If everything we believe concerning God can be called a "mystery", we might as well say that there are 4 persons in the Godhead (The Father, Son, Holy Ghost and Mary) instead of 3...and label that a "mystery". IOW, it seems you want to write off questionable doctrine (meaning that which does not jive with Judaism) as "mystery" to justify it. Again.... yes, there is mystery in religion, but the mysteries of the Nicene church do not jive with the mysteries of Judaism. Avoiding the issues of how Nicene Christianity is anathema to Judaisms beliefs, by explaining the doctrine as "msytery"....appears to be somewhat of a cop out.
RE: "I am told by Protestants I am not a Christian because I don't accept belief in the Trinity."
You're in good company. Check out this site:
http://www.onr.com/user/bejo/index.htm
The ECHL started out as you might expect in the east, as a "family-friendly" entertainment diversion. Tickets are cheap and there is a salary cap. It's done so well that it's expanded to 4 divisions all over the country and dropped the "east coast" and now just goes by the letters.
There are ECHL teams in Wheeling and in Johnstown. Either is about an hour from here. The Johnstown Chiefs are the team featured in the movie classic "Slap Shot," though they masquerade as the "Charlestown Chiefs." The Wheeling Nailers provided players for the non-classic movie "Sudden Death," where terrorists threatened to blow up the Civic Arena during a playoff game.
The AHL Baby Penguins play in Wilkes Barre/Scranton, across the state.
SD
You might like this one:
http://www.onr.com/user/bejo/manjesus.htm
If you read the author's "about me" page, you will see he grew up Baptist...got his religion degree from Baylor U, entered the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and became a Baptist minister. He left the ministry after not being able to reconcile what he was taught, with what he read on his own. He now considers himself a Christian Deist.
Who was Jesus?
http://www.onr.com/user/bejo/whojesus.htm
Polite. Some people can't acknowledge the existence of any mystery in man's relationship with God.
yes, there is mystery in religion, but the mysteries of the Nicene church do not jive with the mysteries of Judaism.
That is your opinion. I don't agree.
Avoiding the issues of how Nicene Christianity is anathema to Judaisms beliefs, by explaining the doctrine as "msytery"....appears to be somewhat of a cop out.
I don't think I ever did that. Do you have an example? I have been quite upfront that I understand that some people find Judaism and subsequent Christian development incompatible. I've never tried to wave that away by claiming "mystery."
As for apples and oranges, I find no difference in kind between an 800 year old woman giving birth (Sarah) than a virgin doing so. Both are unexplained and naturally impossible. They are miraculous. One person lives in the belly of a whale for three days, another is called out of his grave (Lazarus). Neither could be expected to survive by natural means.
SD
That may be a fair analogy. Like someone calling himself "African American" because of the color of his skin despite having no relationship to Africa (or even having visited Africa).
There is no such thing as a "Deist" who is a "Christian"... but there are Deists who feel an association with many of what they feel Christ's "teaching" were... so, among Deists, they associate with Christ.
This does not make them in any way "Christian" any more than wanting to associate oneself with "Africa" makes one "African".
Matthew 28:
18: And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
That is the Trinitarian formula. What did you think I meant?
SD
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