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Posted on 01/26/2004 1:01:03 PM PST by Mossad1967
Edited on 01/26/2004 2:18:02 PM PST by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
America still sleeps.
Scary prospect, isn't it?
LOL! That would be a good toast.
Would it help if I bolded certain words?
As to your facts, I am forced to assume these were statements made by Mr. Putin directly to you as there is no source cited yet you declare them as "cold, hard facts."
The quote comes from an article cited about 100 posts prior to mine, from either of the venerable sources of WND or Newsmax.
I never stated that Russia would take over the U.S. That's a strawman argument. Please cite "evidence" that muslims are a threat to the Russians at this time. Please include any threats you are aware of by Muslim groups to bring down Russia as they have the U.S.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9910/10/russia.chechnya.01/
October 1999
"Russia will send envoys to several Islamic nations to explain Russia's objectives in Chechnya, officials in the Foreign Ministry said."
"One official told CNN the plans are not final, but Russia does not want Islamic countries in the Mideast to feel uneasy about the ongoing conflict in predominantly Muslim Chechnya."
"The Russian emissaries will travel to Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other countries to explain that Russia's action is "not directed against Muslims," the Foreign Ministry source said."
"Militants who invaded Dagestan from Chechnya, for example, have said their aim was to set up an Islamic state in the region. The Russian government charges the militants are terrorists, backed by international supporters."
You state they (Russia) do not have the "time" to deal withh nuking the U.S. and dealing with the aftermath" yet you do not point to "evidence" or "fact" supporting this. What in the heck is keeping them so busy?
Moscow Times
January 9, 2003
Hazers Fill Officers' Void
By Pavel Felgenhauer
Last week there was another case of mass desertions by Russian conscript soldiers -- this time from a unit of the Federal Railroad Troops near St. Petersburg. Similar to a recent mass desertion from a unit near Moscow, the soldiers took a train to the city and went directly to the St. Petersburg office of the Soldiers' Mothers Committee to complain of abuse by their commanding officers.
The mass desertion got lots of publicity on national television channels. A representative of the railroad troops -- once part of the Defense Ministry before becoming an independent armed force in the 1990s -- claimed the soldiers were "hooligans" who had attempted to consume alcoholic beverages in the barracks to celebrate the New Year and, after being disciplined by officers, deserted to escape punishment.
Abuse of conscripts has long been a feature of Russian military service. In most cases, newly enlisted conscripts are hazed by their longer-serving comrades -- so-called grandfathers -- who have served at least 1 1/2 years of the two-year term. This abuse often leads to desertions, shooting incidents and widespread suicides by conscripts who are physically and sometimes sexually assaulted, according to evidence gathered by Soldiers' Mothers and other human rights groups.
But the recent mass desertions from units near Moscow and St. Petersburg seem to be a special case. Many of the deserters were in fact grandfathers -- conscripts with only several months left to serve who, according to military tradition, enjoy unofficial privileges in barracks. Apparently it was the grandfathers themselves who organized the mass desertions, a sign that the hazing system is beginning to break up.
Unlike in the West, Russian military units do not have professional noncommissioned officers. After World War II, the number of experienced corporals and sergeants tumbled. By the 1960s, they had virtually disappeared as a breed. The few who remained -- the praporshchiki -- mostly occupied administrative and logistics positions. Units were run by young conscripts who became NCOs after just five months of sergeant school.
These half-baked sergeants in most cases were not ready to be true leaders of detachments. Nor were they experienced enough to keep discipline and order in conscript units. Today, unit commanders concern themselves with battle strategy and, wanting not to be bothered with supervising troops' daily life and discipline, delegate to grandfathers the dirty work of keeping order among their peers in the barracks, while they, the professional officers, return home to their families at night.
From the 1960s, grandfathers began to take on the roles of the nonexistent professional NCOs -- safeguarding discipline, order and unit traditions. Commanding officers tended to turn a blind eye to the grandfathers' methods of disciplining younger soldiers -- as long as there was some sort of order in the barracks. As the conscript saying goes: The first year, the grandfathers beat you; the second year, you, in turn, beat up the newly enlisted.
Hazing has allowed the preservation of a semblance of military order, but only while allowing terrible abuse and sadistic outrages. Since the late 1980s, the press has exposed military hazing. Soldiers' Mothers committees were formed to help stop the abuse. Defense Ministry chiefs publicly acknowledged the problem, promising to eradicate it.
Of course, hazing has not disappeared. Instead, it has worsened in many cases. The Defense Ministry steadfastly refuses to consider plans to create a professional NCO corps, but as long as there are no professional NCOs, grandfathers will remain indispensable as an organizing force in the barracks, and officers will continue to permit hazing.
But now, with grandfathers' desertions, it seems this seemingly stable, inhumane system is beginning to fall apart from the inside. Discipline, morale and professionalism of Russian officers are at an all-time low. Career officers work second jobs to feed families and neglect their service duties. They steal and sell military hardware. They extort bribes from soldiers and their parents in exchange for favors, while the grandfathers hold things together in the units.
The Russian officer corps is losing respect and authority from among the rank and file. The grandfathers are organizing mass protests in the form of desertions to defend their rights and privileges. If officers are often drunk on the job -- why can't soldiers?
Pavel Felgenhauer is an independent defense analyst and Moscow Times columnist.
MnC, I'm not a weatherman, but I'm pretty sure that we need not fear this pathetic group taking over the US next week.
You say "You see, why would they shut off their ATM machine?" Their ATM machine is running dry, and China has replaced much of what the U.S. provided in earlier years. Please, allow me to share with you this little "fact": Leonid Ivashov of Russia’s Geopolitical Problems Academy (You probably are hearing his name for the first time, but please try to remember it) three days after September 11, 2002 said "The present state of Russia satisfies U.S. interests,” explained Ivashov three days after the Sept. 11 attacks. “What will be tomorrow is unclear.” “Thus, the U.S. is now at a transition point. She has come to the climax of her military-power adventures for grabbing power over the planet. I think this peak will be crossed in one and a half to two years, after which the USA will retreat from its positions as a result of economic problems.” They saw the ATM running dry well before today.
Ahh, yes, the good General Ivashov....a hardline nationalist Russian hawk....removed from his postion in July 2001 for being a hardliner and being critical of the West and the US....what he says carries no weight.
Yes they (Russia) are sitting on the third largest oil reserve in the world. May I present to you another little "fact"? Domestic oil production in the U.S. peaked in 1970. This is well known and can be found through a simple search on the net. Guess where the second largest reserve is? Venezuela. Guess where the largest reserve is? SA. Is it beginning to come in loud and clear yet?
So we should invade Venezuela next? (That's sarcasm).
You say" Fifth, if Russia really did want to take over the US, would they tell us weeks in advance to prepare?" I must not have gotten that memo. when did they tell us to start preparing? Are you referring to the largest nuclear exercise conducted by Russia in over 20 years, the one in which they will actually be launching satellites, the same one in which they will test "their missile defense system"? While I have not taken the position that this exercise is an excuse for launching an attack on the U.S., what better way to deploy, carry out logistics and position themselves than under the guise of an "exercise"?
Boo! What a better way for the US to "deploy, carry out logistics and position themselves" to invade Russia than to invade Iraq and Afghanastan under the guise of fighting terrorism. (Do you get my point?)
COC, you don't have to be a weatherman to own a winter coat.
Obviously not, when you can cite to scary, high placed Russian sources such as the ousted Col-General Leonid.
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