'THE RETURN OF THE KING' Triumph Tinged With Regret in Middle Earth

nytimes.com ^ | December 16, 2003 | ELVIS MITCHELL

[Destro]

May I ask why I can no longer see the articles I posted unless I get a reply to them? Glitch or a new format?

[ecurbh]

Ring Ping!!

There and Back Again: The Journeys of Flat Frodo

Anyone wishing to be added to or removed from the Ring-Ping list, please don't hesitate to let me know.

[Alkhin]

The hobbit Pippin has a much bigger role in this battle, and Billy Boyd is up to it, allowing Pippin to mature.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BradyLS]

That mournful note echoes as Aragorn (Viggo Mortensen) and his forces ready for their assault on Sauron's forces, the orcs. Gandalf (Ian McKellen), in a voice sodden with mellow sadness, realizes that Frodo and Sam are on a suicide mission: "There never was much hope. Just a false hope." Sir Ian's eyes move slowly, filled with mystery and pain.

That's not MY Gandalf! While he may have said things like, "Our doom hangs by the merest thread," Gandalf never said nor implied such a thing as losing all hope in the books. While there was any hope at all, however slim, he held out for it.

[MayDay72]

Geek Bump!!!

[MrConfettiMan]

Yes, one of my gripes with the movies, too. IIRC, and I think I do, none of the main characters in the book show any signs of losing hope in the book yet all (most?) of them in the movies have done so to some degree. It doesn't really bother me, though. Poetic license, Hollywood drama and all that. :)

[Mamzelle]

"there never was much hope--just a fool's hope" was what Gandalf said in the books. "Fool's" must have come out "False" to this reviewer.

[MrConfettiMan]

"There never was much hope. Just a false hope."

Granted I haven't seen the movie yet, just the trailers, and I don't believe this line is in the book, but I thought the line was: "There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope." Am I correct? After all, by definition there is no such thing as false hope. Even Gandalf must know that.

[MrConfettiMan]

GMTA

[Mamzelle]

Help, please, in translation?

[MrConfettiMan]

Sorry. Great Minds Think Alike. :)

[HarleyD]

All I know is that I'm reading that last book, am watching the first two DVDs (extended versions) and have my tickets for Saturday (the only time I can go).

[azemt]

I share your gripes here, though I wouldn't give Jackson any slack for "poetic license". There was plenty of poetic license in the first movie, but the tone was still fairly true. In the second, he clearly showed that he was changing some of the major characters. The most notable things -
1) Theoden wanting to go and hide, instead of joining in the fight regardless of the odds;
2) the Ents wanting to hide away, instead of recognizing the danger to themselves and joining the fight;
3) Faramir desiring the Ring and simply following orders, instead of showing his true nobility, refusing the ring, and aiding the hobbits becasue he saw the need to act;
4) Aragorn making eyes at Eowyn, instead of remaining true to his committment and confronting the young woman's infatuation (remember Aragorn is 80+ in the the books)

I anticipate other instances in the final film - as noted here with this indication that Ganldalf loses all hope! Theoden's death was so powerful in the books, but with him being such a wimp in the Two Towers, I wonder how he'll come off in ROTK.

IMHO, Jackson went well beyond the limits of poetic license and Hollywood drama and all that. I'll still enjoy the film (for the cinematography is nothing else), I just have to keep telling myself "It's not Tolkien...."

[StoneColdGOP]

This is gonna be cool...

[BradyLS]

One of the really wonderful things about LOTR is Gandalf's return as Gandalf the White.

Of all the people in the world who ever knew Gandalf in his long wanderings in Middle Earth, it was Aragron, Legolas, Gimli, Merry, Pippin, Frodo, Sam, and Boromir who saw him fall-- in theMines of Moria, of all places. And against a terrible creature known almost exclusively to the Ancient World before Beleriand and Numenor sank beneath the waves-- a Balrog. What a terrible fate for the Fellowship.

And it gets worse: The Fellowship is only a few days out of Lothlorien and a long whay from completeing their quest when they are betrayed by Boromir and waylaid by the Orcs. With the Gandalf gone, Boromir killed, Merry and Pippin taken, and Sam and Frodo lost, Argorn weeps alone and exclaims that Gandalf's faith in him was in vain. It is the nadir of his existence.

"We must do without hope," he tells Legolas and Gimli, and marks the hard decision to go after Merry and Pippin. And on he goes, merely the Ranger tracking two lost friends. When he comes to Fangorn, he and his companions find hope where they least expected it.

"Gandalf! Beyond all hope you return to us in our need! What veil was over my sight? Gandalf!"

And so Aragron, Legolas, and Gimli witness another wonder when all seemed lost. _Gandalf has returned._

"Be merry! We meet again. The tide has turned. A storm is coming, but the tide has turned."

I don't know about you, but if I had seen someone pass out of life locked in mortal combat with something like the Balrog-- and they comeback? To me and my friends? How could I possibly doubt again??? Others, who'd never seen it or could believe it, may doubt but I could not.

In the books, Aragorn finally accepts his destiny. In the The Two Towers, he still doesn't seem to quite come to grips with it. In the books, the Three Hunters and Merry and Pippin are fairly bouyant about their prospects as a Fellowship, even if Merry and Pippin wonder about their own skins apart on occassion. And why shouldn't they? They saw Gandalf fall and Gandalf return. At the _turn of the tide._

The heroes who must do without hope are Sam and Frodo. But they still have some things to help them. Frodo's Mithril coat to protect him (proven); their Elven cloaks (very handy); Sam's Elven rope (proven); The Ring (perilous, but of use in great need); the Lady's Star Glass (you'll see, if you don't know!); Sting (proven deadly); Sam's Barrow blade (enchanted); The Elves' Lembas (sustaining); and even Gollum (treacherous, but a solid guide). Though they are the ones to see Gandalf fall, they have many powerful tokens and their own great friendship to sustain them until they reach Mount Doom. Even Faramir releases them and they see the flowers bloom on the fallen statue in Ithilien. They have slim chances, but astonishing hope.

It's these elements that I don't quite see, yet, in the movies. I have had friends say that they appreciate Jackson giving Aragorn doubt. "It makes him more realistic. No human could endure what he does."

To a degree, they are correct. Afterall, Boromir succumbs to the Ring and loses his life because of it. Aragorn resisted the Ring and carried on without hope until he sees Gandalf return. And then he has all reason to hope. He has all reason to be the confident King of fairy tales. If Gandalf can come back beyond all hope, "at the turn of the tide," what can there be to fear?

I will pay attention for these signs in Aragorn and company when watching The Return of the King.

[BradyLS]

K0kson went well beyond the limits of poetic license and Hollywood drama and all that. I'll still enjoy the film (for the cinematography is nothing else), I just have to keep telling myself "It's not Tolkien...."

My own thoughts about The Two Towers are narly identical to yours. Jackson definietly broke the spell for me in that film. I'm committed to seeing The Return of the King, but I have to agree, he has some lost ground to cover to bring back it to the story by Tolkien that I love.

[Penny1]

Having just gotten back from seeing the movie, I can tell you that Gandalf says "only a fool's hope" not "false hope." The reviewer got it wrong.

[azemt]

Glad to see I'm not entirely alone on this. Coming out of TTT, my kids were totally jazzed and I was ready to spit nails!

But we have our tickets for the 5:30 showing tonight (isn't Fandango cool?), so I'll get the rest of the story soon enough here......

[azemt]

Gee, a Journalist that got a crucial fact wrong?? Never! </sarcasm>