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Posted on 04/19/2026 5:41:18 AM PDT by cuz1961
What we believe about Israel and its future is of utmost importance.
No church is neutral on the matter of Israel’s place in Bible prophecy. Many pastors say that such matters pertaining to the end times are of lesser significance than other more weighty matters of the faith. In my experience, however, they are the most aggressive in promoting the church as the new Israel and the least tolerant of those who disagree with them on this topic.
(Excerpt) Read more at harbingersdaily.com ...
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... Even so, some might ask, “What’s the big deal?” It’s because the place a church assigns to the role of Israel in Bible prophecy is much more than just a matter of theology buried somewhere in a church’s doctrinal statement; it always impacts key areas of its ministry.
It Results in Elders Who Rule Rather than Shepherd the Flock
A few months ago, I wrote, “5 Troubling Trends in Today’s Church,” in which I detailed the abuses that flow from the kingdom mentality within churches who believe they represent the fulfillment of God’s promises to Israel.
At the top of my list was elders who rule rather than serve the members of the body of Christ. I have witnessed firsthand the harm this causes and have heard many stories from several others who have comparable stories.
The problem with this kingdom mentality is that it so often results in a far different pattern of leadership from what the Lord prescribed in Mark 10:42-45 and Peter later wrote about in 1 Peter 5:1-5: “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” (emphasis added).
Jesus’ pattern for church leadership is that of a servant, with those in charge acting as shepherds caring for the well-being of those in their charge. Sadly, the widespread problem of “domineering” elders is not exclusive to churches who regard themselves as the new Israel.
It Places Undue Emphasis on This Life.
Another harmful result of denying Jesus’ millennial rule over a restored Israel is that it pushes the Lord’s return to a far distant end of the age event, which more often than not leads to an undue focus on this life. I have often heard this reflected in conversations with those who don’t regard the Lord’s return as an imminent event; they plan as if nothing can possibly interfere with their future aspirations.
This faulty emphasis on things pertaining to this life robs believers of the relief that comes from seeing the corruption and violence of our day as signs of Jesus’ imminent appearing rather than something they hope will somehow go away or get better. I can’t imagine reading the news of our day apart from the comfort I feel in knowing that at some point in the not-too-distant future, the Lord will dramatically intervene in human affairs after He takes me home to glory.
It Ignores the Future Tense of the Gospel
Pastors who regard the church as God’s promised kingdom very often ignore the future tense of the Gospel. I have heard many Gospel presentations that completely ignored the matter of eternal life.
There are varying degrees of how this impacts the Gospel. It’s popular among many in the no Rapture and no Millennium crowd to claim that the Lord’s promise of incorruptible and immortal bodies in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 happens at the moment we believe. I’m always shocked when I encounter this false interpretation of the text.
I recently came across a far more dangerous perversion of the Gospel in a quote from a best-selling author and influential spokesman for the preterists (who believe Jesus returned to Earth in AD 70). He said that Jesus didn’t pay the debt for our sins on the cross but simply made our “salvation possible.”
There’s a subtle misunderstanding of the Gospel that flows from not understanding the role of God’s mercy and steadfast love in keeping His promises to Israel in spite of the nation’s waywardness throughout history. It flows from missing the connection between Paul’s amazing affirmation of our security in Romans 8:18-39 and his declaration of the Lord’s unending mercy toward the nation of Israel (Romans 11:28-32). The message of mercy for both Israel and believers is that we are okay because God loves us, not because of our love for Him. Thankfully!
The idea that what a church believes about Israel doesn’t matter is simply not true. Errant beliefs regarding its future often result in elders who abuse their roles as leaders, as well as an undue emphasis on the things of this life. Its doctrinal statement may say that matters of Bible prophecy are of lesser importance than other matters of faith, but upon closer inspection, you will find that its view of Israel defines its ministry in many ways.
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My guess is that there are more the 2 views of how the church treats/sees Israel. The author suggests there are primarily 2 views, which are not in harmony. Could the author state in clear simple terms these 2 views and how/where they differ?
This Jewish convert to Christianity explains why she became Catholic instead of remaining a ‘Messianic Jew’
…Several years after my Bat Mitzvah, I started to ask myself deeper questions: What is the real purpose of our human existence? What really happens when we die? And God, why do YOU feel so far away?
…Micah 5 reveals, “But you, Bethlehem-Ephrathah least among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel; whose origin is from of old, from ancient times” —
Why Recognizing Jesus As The Messiah Is The Culmination Of My Jewish Faith
https://ewtn.co.uk/article-why-recognizing-jesus-as-the-messiah-is-the-culmination-of-my-jewish-faith/
You can believe in certain prophecies concerning Israel, and still NOT want a war with Iran for example. You might not believe in any of them (as a Christian) but still see military action as warranted on practical grounds.
But some churches make foreign policy a matter of doctrine equivalent to core tenets like baptism or even salvation itself. The Israeli flag - or in some cases both the US + Israeli flag - are emphasized than the Cross (!) in certain churches. (And that turns people off as nationalism of any kind can very quickly become toxic idolatry.)
But some churches make foreign policy a matter of doctrine equivalent to core tenets like baptism or even salvation itself. The Israeli flag - or in some cases both the US + Israeli flags - are emphasized more than the Cross! (And that turns people off as nationalism of any kind can quickly become toxic idolatry.)
Typos corrected.
Bump
As usual you miss the points on purpose
And issue dispensational beliefs, or more accurately your opinion , that dispensationalists don’t believe
AkA false witness
Then conflate your own pre constructed strawmen arguments
You are a vile, very white washed, tomb.
Get off and stay off my threads)
Consider this a dispensationalist caucus.
Not a single ounce of love or grace in your tone as usual. So you qualify as an elder with all the correct views yet you can’t even fake an ounce of Christlike character.
…Several years after my Bat Mitzvah, I started to ask myself deeper questions: What is the real purpose of our human existence? What really happens when we die? And God, why do YOU feel so far away?
It appears he wants a relationship with his creation. And he tells us a lot about his ideas for that relationship.
https://learn.ligonier.org/articles/westminster-shorter-catechism
Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him for ever.
1 Cor. 10:31; Rom. 11:36; Ps. 73:25-28.
note the two parts, the second is worthy of much reflection also.
I have been asked to leave this thread but will respond to this. Amen “to glorify God and enjoy Him forever!”
My point in bringing up the Jewish woman above was not the Catholic vs Protestant or any End Times debate— but share what drew her heart to Jesus. (Catholic rituals though, do pay homage to Hebraic traditions in a way that may resonate with Jewish converts in particular.)
Whether it’s a Jewish person or anyone walking into church for the first time, it’s more important that the priests (or elders) exhibit the love of Christ and inclusivity of the Gospel invitation.
A newcomer to church can be going through a trial: lost a job, impending divorce, or contemplating abortion — and imagine if he or she walks into church, and the sermon is less about Jesus, and more about Hezbollah & the rapture timeline. Yet sadly this can be the case! In the Book of Revelation, Jesus rebuked such churches when addressing the church in Ephesus:
“I have this against you, that you have left your first love.” - Revelations 2:4
All that doctrine is for naught if Christ isn’t our first love.
Relevant Ligonier links:
Father Abraham Had Many Sons
https://learn.ligonier.org/devotionals/father-abraham-had-many-sons
The Seed pf Abraham
https://learn.ligonier.org/devotionals/seed-of-abraham
A newcomer to church can be going through a trial: lost a job, impending divorce, or contemplating abortion — and imagine if he or she walks into church, and the sermon is less about Jesus, and more about Hezbollah & the rapture timeline. Yet sadly this can be the case! In the Book of Revelation, Jesus rebuked such churches when addressing the church in Ephesus:
Maybe it isn’t about the sermon?
Mal 3:16 Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In His presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared Him and always thought about the honor of His name.
What we believe about Israel and its future is of utmost importance.
I have been asked to leave this thread but ...
Wont
That right there is you in a nut shell...
Rebellious and stiff necked arrogance.
Above meant for condi ( Owens lite )
Rebellious and stiff necked arrogance.
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